Sick Bearded Dragon -

[Anne Williams]

We brought our 2.5 year old male bearded dragon to a vet because he was opening his mouth and it looked like it was hard for him to breathe. His tounge was swollen and It looked like he had skin over both nostrils. Spike was given a pain killer and an anti-inflamitory, liquid by injection, Vit -B, liquid critical care and an anti-biotic by injection. Spike has had x-rays, blood work, which didn't show anything remarkable. His labs were fine 10 days ago, a little low on calcium, the reason why he was prescribed liquid calcium. Spike bounced back and we got him back from the vet after a three day stay.

But now, some of the intervention from us and the vet may have hurt him so I don't know what I can do right now to help him. The reason why I am posting here.

Possible Complications of Treatment:
1. Spike may have aspirated some of the critical care and/or water from a bath I gave him.
2. I let the Vet know that it looks like his nose was covered and while they had him, it looks like they cut that skin off, but his nose still looks inflamed and blocked
3. I may have had the heat on too long one day and he over heated as I was away all day.
4. He's receiving liquid calcium 2x a day and I wonder if he is being overdosed as his urate 2 days ago was large and solid as a rock.

Spike's Current Condition:
1. After we got back from the Vet yesterday, who gave him dewormer, more liquid food, intervenious hydration, anti-biotic, Vit-B....Spike vomited clear fluid 2 hours after we got home. My son said it seemed clear, like water /an orsaliva. My son tilted him downwards so the fluid came out. Spike gurgled and choked for the next two hours so my son repeated gently pointing him downward to get the fluid out which looked like some squash we fed him yesterday. We stayed up with Spike for 3 hours until his chocking stopped.

2. This morning I gave him a 15 min bath: 1/2 pedialite / 1/2 warm water.
3. I'm cleaned his nose with Q-tips but the damage done by the vet taking the skin off is more than unfortunate.
4. I'm moving the basking light 3 hours over him, 3 hours on the other side so he can cool down.
5. Spike is sill mouth breathing with mucus in his mouth so I am syringing small amounts of water / pedialite mixture gently into his mouth.
6. Spike isn't moving much at all so I am checking on him often to see how he is doing, I'm petting him and talking to him so he knows were trying to help him.
7. Spike isn't eating

Tank Conditions:
1. Yesterday I bought a new UVB 10 / 24" repitsun bulb.
2. 75 Watt basking light, basking area is 90 degrees., cool area 80.
3. I am going to buy a digital thermometer gun to test these areas to make sure.

ANY SUGGESTIONS OF WHAT WE CAN TWEAK< CHANGE TO HELP SPIKE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED> . THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR HELP.

 

[Anne Williams]

No one has answered our call for help. We have done everything in our power to help and we were hoping for someone who has more knowledge then us....some suggestion that could turn the table.

Any one...why is it that I have read this site for the last few years and then when i need help no one comes? We just need a tidbit of info...anything??

 

[Josh]

Cool side sounds a little high.
Elevated temps are fine esp because it sounds Like he has an infection but make sure he can get cool if he desires. Where is he spending his time when the bulb is on? What about off?
Sounds like the vet wasn't experienced with reptiles and just kinda did everything to cover his bases. Hydration is the most important. Heat is a close second. Food is important but he can go a while without eating if he doesn't feel well.

 

[Anne Williams]

Thank you for answering. We went to an exotic vet specialist, the main Vet is qualified but the people who work for her are not. Poor Spike has red gouges on the upper inside of his mouth into his nose, as if someone tried to clear his nose with a probe, sticking something through it to clear it. They also cut around the tissue on the outside....I'm baffled and upset this is the least of our worries.

Spike doesn't move now....so I am moving the light. 3 hours on at 90 degrees (basking).. 3 hours on the other side of the tank to create an 80 degree cool side.

Does this sound ok?

 

[Anne Williams]

If you can please let me know what temps I should have tonight...that would be great. i am bringing Spike to have a second opinion tomorrow.... and want to make hi comfortable and I want to make sure that his temp. needs are met. Thank you for any info you can give me.

 

[Josh]

Not moving at all doesn't sound good. The doctor cutting and probing and creating wounds doesn't sound good. Remember we're not vets. A second opinion sounds good. 90 basking and 70 cool side is ideal IMHO

 

[Anne Williams]

Thanks Josh.

 

[Anne Williams]

thank you....we'll make sure that is the right temp. 90 / 70... will do. I know you are not vets. I needed common sense and someone who has a bearded dragons who know their constitution. I brought Spike to a "Reptile" Vet who doesn't own one....spent $1,000 for she and her team to treat him, and he became an experiment.....Its devastating.

We have the temperatures in check, giving spike a bath, feeding him baby food/chicken/ sweet potato tonight...stroking him and talking to him. The second opinion is from a Vet who feels he needs a different antibiotic....Spike seems comfortable, relaxed. All we can do now.

 

[Anne Williams]

We are going to a different vet to get a second opinion this morning. I read online last night that you tilt a bearded dragon slightly down to have the mucus come out...I think this helped, but he didn't like it so he lifted his head and stood on his front legs. The most activity he's had since Thursday. We are taking it very easy on him and watching him very closely, his temperatures are 95 basking and I'm moving the light so the cool area will be 78. I am so glad I don't have to work this weekend so I can keep a close eye on him. I'll keep you posted as to what the vet says. Thanks..

 

[BeardedHippy]

sorry for the late response, someone usually anwers fast but guess they were all busy. I am super concerned that the vet cut of the skin in his nose. That skin is meant to be there, its attached to a piece of cartilage that allows the nostril to be closed to protect from the environment (dust, water etc). The vet is no reptile vet thats for sure, that should be basic knowledge. That is bad and im not sure what the long term effects are going to be, but I would mostly be worried about infection right now. Keep clean and dry till it heals.
If your beardies calcium levels were only a little low then that amount of liquid calcium is surely too much. I would stop using that and just make sure you use her normal suppliments regularly, after all he has had a good boost from the liquid calcium, it should be enough.

 

[BeardedHippy]

High temps can cause mouth gaping too, its how they regulate their temperature.

 

[Anne Williams]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, the nose cutting was extremely upsetting to me as they didn't tell me they were going to do that. They did cut the cartlidge off....I can see it. I stopped giving the calcium and it could very well have been the reason Spike had a very hard, dry, long urate a few days ago, that has never happened.

I brought Spike to get a second opinion and this vet tried a different antibiotic and gave him fluids. She said that the next 2 days are important in finding out how he does.

My main question is how long should he be in the basking temp. of 94 degrees? how long should he be in the cool temp 80 degree? Since he isn't moving, Im moving the light for him. If you have any other advice, please let me know. Would you suggest putting neosporin on his nose?

He perked up today but this round of anitbiotics wiped him out. I don't know if he will make it and its is very stressful, Spike is my son's bearded Dragon, and he really loves him. Very hard... Thanks

 

[BeardedHippy]

He needs 2 hours to bask after eating. If he is not eating then there is no need to bask and you should probably leave him in the middle(ish) of the tank, not too hot or cold. If he is warm it will keep his metabolism up and speed healing a bit. Neosporin certainly wont hurt and it acts as a barrier to help keep the wound clean, plus the antibiotic will help against infection.
I am keeping my fingers crossed for you and your son that he pulls through this. I hope he doesnt react too badly to the antibiotics, they can really take a toll on a little body ,especially when it is sick already.

 

[Anne Williams]

Thank you. His color looks good and he is resting. My concern is what we don't know and what I have read about lung worm and Pentastomids. These are worms start in the digestive tract then go to the lungs. The vet tested Spike for worms and found pin worm. I want to have them test for all parasites and need to ask about lung worm on Monday when I go back for a follow-up.

 

[PatsyB]

Did any of these vets say anything about respiratory infection or pneumonia? I would keep the high temps until you are done with the course of antibiotics. Even at night, I would keep the tank on the warmer side with a CHE. The heat will help dry him out a bit but he needs the antibiotics to help rid the infection.

 

[Anne Williams]

We went on Saturday to get a second opinion from another vet. She changed his antibiotic because she said it is better for respiratory infections. Spike's Temp at night is 80, I keep to cool side of the tank during the day at 80 and the basking at 95. I'm trying to make him comfortable and I do put him under heat thats 95 to 100 for an hour in the morning then I cool him off by moving the light. Spike isn't doing well and we are going to keep him comfortable, bathe him, feed him baby food/water and wait to see if the antibitoics kick in. He's been giving fluids by injection, critical care tube fed. We are doing everything we can and I think...maybe honestly, TOO much of the wrong stuff was done early on, that is why he is so badly off.
My goal is to make him comfortable and make sure he isn't suffering. We'll try to nurse him back if we can. I had hoped that we would have had a remarkable turn around with the new antibiotic...but it was only a slight improvement. I guess thats better than the alternative.

 

[PatsyB]

How's he doing?

 

[Cinna]

Anne, I hope Spike is improving.
When my beardie Cinna was ill, and I didn’t know what was wrong with her, she had a gradual increase of diff symptoms. I didn’t know and neither did the herp vet, but he sure tortured her and gave her meds that made her sicker than she started off.
I did my research and found ReptaidXL. You can get it fast from Amazon. It is a blend to heal Beardies and other reptiles utilizing black seed oil. It worked for my baby, helped her recover, stopped her seizure like tremors and even shrunk/deleted a spine tumor so she can walk again!! If I was you I’d give that a shot instead of spending more $$ on vets. [And as a side note the first one you saw should be sued for malpractice! They should have just told you they didn’t know what to do and not charged you >$1K!! That’s ludicrous!! Sry had to be said.] :/
The Reptaid can be given by mouth and used externally also. My baby Cinna is now happy and healthy almost 2 years after she crashed on me, and I recovered her. The research on black seed oil is voluminous and it’s stated that “it can heal anything except death.”. I’m a stout believer in it, I would def try it in your case.
As far as the heating/basking issue, I would leave the light where it is, and regulate it on a few hours and off a few hours, keeping Spike in a 90-95 degree range all the time. Keep the enclosure in ICU mode, meaning plain paper towels laid out on the bottom of enclosure and maybe a simple soft towel for Spike to cozy on, and his water bowl. (Beardies like to snuggle.)
All else should come out, to prevent further possible contamination issues, especially with parasite problems. Discard old bedding, or wash well in hot water if a roll up terf bedding, and set aside for down the road. Wash everything throughly, including water bowl and enclosure. Recommended to use a betadine/water mix to disinfect. Spray onto area and allow to sit for a few minutes and then wipe off excess. No need to rinse.
Do the electrolyte soaks 2-3 times a day in warm water for 15 min each. I used a mix, also from Amazon, by Emergen-C called Electro Mix. It doesn’t have the corn syrup crap pedilayte does. It’s a bright green box. I also added about 6 drops of Reptaid to my soaks. Once Cinna felt a little better she would drink the mixture she was soaking in, she liked it.
I hope you’ll give these things a try, sometimes modern medicine hurts more than it heals, unfortunately.
Hope your baby gets better soon

 

[Galapoodle]

Hey, just seeing your thread now. One thing that may help with Spike's upset tummy from the antibiotics is probiotics, that way his good gut flora gets replenished. Our vet had some to sell (for exotic animals) but I hear you can also use soy yogurt. I had to make slurries of squash and greens and add the probiotic to it for my beardie when she was on antibiotics for a respiratory infection. She kept eating worms but went off salads and didn't like the taste of the probiotic on her worms. Throughout her illness she was very lazy. On oral Baytril antibiotics for 40 days. But, she survived. I hope Spike is okay, and I'm so sad about what the initial vet did to the poor guy. It is so scary when your dragon is sick, just know you're not alone.

 

[Anne Williams]

Spike is still with us. We are making him comfortable and my son brings him by the fire place in his bean bag, lay Spike on his chest and gently strokes his back and talks to him several times a day. Spike lifts his head some times but still open mouth breathes and does the under the jaw motion and wont eat solid food. He still has mucus but not as much, because I had the Vet stop the "critical care" tube feeding, because after every time, Spike gurgled, foamed and was fighting a ton of mucus in his mouth. Spike was at the Vet on Tuesday and had more fluid injections and his antibiotic. We are supposed to go back Friday. I just feel that too much intervention has pushed Spike into a worse state then when we brought him in.

I've looked up so much stuff and read something good about bee pollen so we got it and I give him water with bee pollen with a small syringe. He licks it, he likes it. I will buy some of that ReptaidXL.... I believe in alternative treatments and I am hoping that the bee pollen can help soothe his stomach, as the dewormer they gave him must have been harsh...he still hasn't pooped and its been a week since he was given the dewormer. It would be great to see whats going on in there and we'd welcome a bowl movement. I put him on a hot water bottle...didn't summons a poop.

I stopped the daily calcium but after our last vet apt. on Tuesday, she said I need to keep on giving it to him. So I am only giving it to him 1x a day....not 2x. Spike had such a hard urate a week ago (last time he pooped), that I thought it was due to too much calcium as they were giving him daily calcium shots daily and had me give Spike calcium 2x a day.

This is important: When Spike looks a little more lively, I try to give him baby food, massage his stomach in a warm bath and then....he gets limp...its too much for him. So I am taking a hands off, minimalistic approach to it. I'm monitoring his temps, I give him water and bee pollen by eye small syrynge, calcium 1 x a day, one bath a day in water and the vet is administering fluids and antibiotics 2x a week. The main thing that isn't happening care wise is food. His last tube feeding of critical care was on Thursday last week. BUT... I've been giving him baby food, he's not eating much and again after he eats, he seems to feel worse and mucus forms in his mouth.

Questions:
How long can Spike go without a tube feeding?
How hot should the water bottle be and how long should I keep him on it?
How much food does Spike need to maintain his strength?

I found a real reptile vet and I put a call into them. Hopefully I will be able to talk with them today. I don't know where to draw the line money wise. I'm pretty much hurting for money and its all very stressful. Honestly, i can't focus on anything because i feel like time is running out of time.

I will order the ReptaidXL tonight. Thank you. Anne