Sand as subtrate.

[CalebL]

I saw a couple people here using sand as subtrate and I just wanted to remind them that sand is a HUGE NO. For any reptiles but especially beardies as they use their toung to taste everything as they go about there day. Sand conjests their whole insides and will kill them. I have had personal experience with sand fatalities and the vet bills aren't pretty. They can't digest or pass sand so please use paper towel or tiles to line the terrarium.

 

[Bushmaster11B]

Children's silicone free sifted play sand is the only safe sand to use. A lot of people in here use it and have never had problem for 15+ years. Cali sand and Repti sand on the other hand are extremely dangerous. Many that do use sand, also feed their BD's in separate containers. And my last statement, if sand was so dangerous, BD's would be not even exist in the wild (Australia) as they are desert animals.... and what is in Deserts????? SAND! Please do some more research on Children's silicone free sifted play sand. Even some of our Moderators use it.

People please NOTE: You cannot put Play Sand in your enclosure until your BD is at least 10". And even then I would wait until it is about 15" long. The reason is because their digestive tract is much smaller and you "may" risk impaction. It's about responsibility and GOOD husbandry that will prevent ANY sand impaction. However, after the lengths described, your BD should be safe. You just have to monitor these amazing animals way more than a cat or dog!

 

[CalebL]

Well you may use what you want but never in a thousand years would I risk putting my beardies on any type of sand again. I have seen the results and it ain't pretty. But as I said y'all do what y'all see fit for y'alls beardie.

 

[Bushmaster11B]

I don't use any kind of sand in my enclosure and don't plan on it for the simple fact "any" kind of risk if I am away from the house all day, a couple of days ect. Plus I personally think my slate looks awesome and it's easier to keep clean than sand.

 

[CB43FAN]

There is no sand in the Australian desert where they are from. It is a hard packed dirt/brush. Not all deserts are like the Sahara. Desert is a climate type, not necessarily a landscape type. Why would anyone use sand when it is easier and cheaper to use a ceramic or slate tile?

 

[CB43FAN]

Wasn't attacking your post, or even addressing it specifically, just adding info. I think that alot of people assume desert means sand, and it doesn't. I use tile as well and see no better substrate.

 

[Germ]

Well as a personal breeder of dragons and reptiles for 26 years, sadly I have had experience with sand impaction. But as I can't stop you I must sugest you start saving up for the vet Bill and surgery.

Using strained washed play sand is perfectly safe, now if you are using gravel, that is a different story. That's not the sand's fault, just plain 'Poor Husbandry'. As for your statements about it causing impaction, if your husbandry is up to par, temps are right & your BDs are well hydrated, any fine sand (If it is strained, it will all be fine & washed sand has no binding agent, separates & falls apart when moistened, as it would be during the digestive process, so will not clump like Calci-Sand.) will pass right through without issue. Have been using it in all my enclosures for almost a dozen years, for many BDs 10+" long, nose to tip of tail, with absolutely no issues, feeding in & out of the enclosure, as have many, many long time keepers & breeders since the start of the hobby. No one is saying that sand has to be used, just that setup properly it is a very viable & acceptable option. If you don't want to use it, it's simple, don't!

Another thing I would like to mention, about your 26 years experience as a 'Personal' Breeder (What the heck is that anyway?), something does not compute.

You entered your birthdate in your profile, or did you forget that that you are less than a week past 18 yo. Happy belated B-Day by the way . Your introduction post leaves a distinct impression that you are the proud owner of a single 4 month old BD named Draco. So where is the BS? Methinks by your advice & terminology, that surely does not reflect a 26 year veteran keeper, let alone breeder, that, it lies here.

@CB43FAN & @CalebL

As has been pointed out to you many times in the past you should do more thorough research before condemning something. In this case your info on the use of sand as a substrate in a bearded dragon's enclosure is neither complete nor is it accurate by any means and spreading mis-information based only on your personal preferences without any proof to back what you claim is of no help to anyone. Every few months you pop into these forums and try to spread your gospel on the dangers of using sand substrate and while I certainly appreciate your attempt to participate in the forum I do not appreciate when anyone repeatedly tries to spread wrong and or unfounded information in the forums as it is the purpose of these forums to make sure that folks get the accurate info that they need to properly care for their bearded dragon.

To begin with you have said that in their native habitat bearded dragons do not live in sand but instead hard packed clay substrates. Your answer is only partially correct as they live in hard clay and gravel/rock, scrub forest bed and indeed in sand areas. Those areas are called "traveling sands" by the way and are indeed sand dunes.

You have also claimed that sand substrate poses a high risk of impaction in bearded dragons. While there are some "sand substrates" like CalciSand that do pose impaction risks, this is simply not true for all natural sand substrates and in fact impaction is not as common an occurrence in captivity as most people would be led to believe in the first place. Thousand of bearded dragons do die each year from impaction in their native habitat but it is not caused by sand. The truth is that it is caused by the ingestion of the clay substrate in their environment. These deaths by impaction are not limited to bearded dragons either because many other species suffer the same fate there. By the way the "hard packed clay" that you refer to is actually cracked, flaky,dry and dusty and easily ingested. That is fact.

Sand such as Children's Play-sand does not clump if it is ingested but will in fact simply pass straight through the digestive tract. On the other hand clay clumps together and blocks the digestive tract which is a classic impaction scenario.

Children's Play-sand is and has been used safely and without incident by hundreds if not thousands of bearded dragon enthusiasts and breeders for decades and as long as the criteria for safely using it is met then it is an established, tested and proven safe alternative substrate to use.

The prerequisites to using Children's Play-sand are that your dragon be 10+ inches in length from snout tip to tail tip and that it be a healthy, well-hydrated dragon. The only accepted Play Sand to use would be Washed and Sifted Children's Play-sand. I personally recommend that before using it that it be baked in a 225 degree Fahrenheit oven for at least 30 minutes and allowed to cool to room temperature to ensure that any molds, fungi or bacteria that may be in it are killed off.

As far as it posing a greater risk of respiratory distress to your dragon I believe that to also be an unfounded claim as well. Bearded dragon's come from one of the harshest, most dusty and dry climates on the planet and their bodies are built to handle that climate. While Children's Play-sand may be a bit dusty at times the dust is minimal and I believe that the risk of them developing a respiratory infection because of that is no more than from the ordinary household dust in most homes.

As far as it being a harbinger or breeding ground for germs and bacteria the fact is that as long as proper husbandry practices are maintained then it poses no more risk than any other substrate choice. You mentioned in another thread that when using tiles for substrate that feces can just be wiped up and cleaned with paper towels and water. While it is true that it can be wiped up it can not be cleaned properly with just water and by simply wiping feces up with water you are in fact leaving a whole host of the germs and bacteria that you are so concerned with. Perhaps you should revisit and modify your own husbandry practice before suggesting to others how they should clean their dragon's house.

While I will agree with you on the other substrate choices you listed as good alternatives, I whole-heartedly disagree with your presumption that using Children's Play-sand is a bad choice for a dragon keeper to choose.

I hope that you will continue to participate in the forums but please refrain from posting absolutely wrong info and please do your research before hand. Bad info is bad info and of no viable use to anyone.

I will also remind you that you were challenged on this same issue a few months back and at that time asked to produce two legitimate articles which would fully back your claims and have yet to produce even one. The reason why is that you are wrong in your claims but the challenge is still open.

Enjoy!!

I have had personal experience with sand fatalities and the vet bills aren't pretty.

Did you actually have a Necropsy done to determine if 'Sand' was actually the cause of the fatalities, if so, it would be very enlightening if you could attach copies of the results. Poor husbandry, poor heat, poor hydration, too coarse of substrate &\or poor setup, is generally the culprit, with sand being an easy scapegoat rather than admitting Human error.

Yes BDs do check out unfamiliar territory & environments with their tongues, but they quickly get familiarized & it is short lived. It is rare to see a BD do this in an enclosure after it has been in it for a few days. Any ingestion would be minimal & pass right through easily, posing no danger or discomfort.

Why would anyone use sand when it is easier and cheaper to use a ceramic or slate tile?

There is no easier to maintain substrate than strained children's washed play sand.

 

[bouncer36]

Omg I wish I would have waited. You are only 18 years old You had me thinking and I went and bought some tile and wasted my money to do so and changed Jessie's tank to it when I could have left it alone. My hubby told I should just leave alone because I have already changed it. Because I spent a lot on so I should use it

 

[bouncer36]

We'll I'm going stay with the tile now that I have change it back to it. No use confusing the dragons

 

[Bushmaster11B]

Right.... Sorry they didn't give correct information and confused you. For future reference, don't go off some one's advise if they are new here and not a moderator. Germ, Gill... they are all very experience and are moderators or higher for a reason. You know? Don't sweet it and just learn from this. You will always get people who think they know better and just want to start drama based on rumors they hear or want to believe.

 

[CB43FAN]

I never said anything against sand. I have used it in the past and don't like it. I don't like the dust and odor associated with it. And I don't personally feel that I can keep it as germ and bacteria free as tile. I can see the same issues arising from left over germs and bacteria in sand the same as tile. I feel that I can confidently remove my tile and sterilize it easily. I have young children and this is what I am comfortable with to keep it all clean and sanitary.

You guys really know how to make someone feel welcome here. Just because I am not an frequent poster on this board does not mean that I am inexperienced. I just browse many boards and finally felt the desire to join one recently to ask about our 2 new babies and this is what I end up getting.

As far as the stupid and ignorant comment Bush, what do you know? My opinion in no way infers that I am ignorant. What I suggested is and entirely reasonable option for housing BD's. Ignorance would be blindly accepting your way of doing things with no regard to any others. I could argue that you in fact are ignorant since you chose to join the Army and go the route you did in life, when I have no knowledge of who you are, where you came from or anything else. How would that make you feel? You know nothing about me, but choose to opine that I am ignorant and stupid, because my opinion differs from yours, which confuses me, because it actually didn't. YOU Bush, are the one that in all caps screamed that the Australian desert is composed of SAND. For f?#k's sake, I was basically agreeing with you and you went on to attack me, repeatedly! What do I deserve? I am just putting in my 2 cents. I guess in the end, you are just another internet bully that gets his rocks off fighting here. I am confused, first you say no sand, use tile, then now sand is the best because Germ said so. Make up your mind.

 

[Germ]

I would like to correct this statement of an implied remark ...

I am confused, first you say no sand, use tile, then now sand is the best because Germ said so. Make up your mind.

I have never said that Sand was or is the best substrate to use, nor do I try to influence people into using it. All I have ever said is that Children's Washed Play Sand is, and has been used for decades by many, many keepers & breeders as a perfectly acceptable, safe substrate, that happens to be the choice that I have used for all my BDs 10+" nose to tip of tail, since day one. Simply attempting to keep the info straight.

 

[CB43FAN]

Hey Bush, thanks for validating my post. I can handle it, buddy. Give me your best. OK, maybe not a bully, but most def a know it all.

Thanks Germ, different strokes for different folks.

 

[CB43FAN]

If I remember correctly, you are the one that started this, but hey, save those mad skills and have a nice one as well.

 

[Bushmaster11B]

Bump

 

[smokejunky]

y did u bump this

 

[Bushmaster11B]

Bump is to refresh, right? I Bumped it because regardless of the argument, the false information was corrected by other members and does not need to be gone un-noticed.

FYI, for anyone that doesn't know: The definition for the acronym B.U.M.P. is "Bring Up My Post".

 

[LooptyLoo]

This is the most ridiculous thread. I'm sure I'll get all kinds of rocks thrown at me for this, because that is how this forum works, it seems. Regardless of how I feel about the opinions posted on this particular subject, some of you here are more skilled at attacking and putting down than encouraging and educating. I mean, really? You're going to get your hackles raised because someone likes to use sand? *slaps forehead*

I use tile. I don't use sand. But I sure as heck am not going to start throwing around insults. There are a couple of you here that need to grow up.

Now get back to loving on your Beardies, and maybe give yourselves a refresher course on manners while you're at it. Or at least proper maturity levels.

 

[Jaycies]

Okay everyone. This is SUPPOSED to be a fun, informative, and helpful place. Not a place to throw rocks. If you must throw rocks, I suggest you take your BD outside and go for a long walk....and then come back to post.

Methinks you'll see it helps!

 

[Bushmaster11B]

Jaycies is right, I took my BD out when I got mad one time and took a deep breath.... it works.