mealworms

[li]

Nope...no supers. I am not a Roach or worm person. When I first started with beardies crix were hard enough for me to get used to. I overcame my "fear" of them many years ago, but the other stuff...Just can't do.

As for feeding or using a substrate, or a light, or anything that is "questionable", why? Why would anybody take the chance on a living life to experiment. Jeeze, I remember a time ago when people were experimenting with temperatures. Not a good outcome. If we have much information saying that it isn't good to feed a beardie with anything with lots of chitin in it...it can and does cause impaction, why would we. There are so many other feeders that are great. Same goes with substrates... and so on.

I don't think you are trying to start an argument, just want you to know where I come from. I have been doing this now for 8 years. Less than some, but I can guarantee a lot longer than others. I do not believe or begin to preach that I am a pro, but I do have many years of experience. You will never see me put out anything on a forum that is "made up by a boogeyman". My threads will ALWAYS contain information that is either an experience from me and/or experiences from others over the years. If I am not sure of something, you will ALWAYS hear me say that. I will also refer to the one person on this forum that i KNOW would be able to answer.

 

[crypticdragons]

Nope...no supers. I am not a Roach or worm person. When I first started with beardies crix were hard enough for me to get used to. I overcame my "fear" of them many years ago, but the other stuff...Just can't do.

As for feeding or using a substrate, or a light, or anything that is "questionable", why? Why would anybody take the chance on a living life to experiment. Jeeze, I remember a time ago when people were experimenting with temperatures. Not a good outcome. If we have much information saying that it isn't good to feed a beardie with anything with lots of chitin in it...it can and does cause impaction, why would we. There are so many other feeders that are great. Same goes with substrates... and so on.

I don't think you are trying to start an argument, just want you to know where I come from. I have been doing this now for 8 years. Less than some, but I can guarantee a lot longer than others. I do not believe or begin to preach that I am a pro, but I do have many years of experience. You will never see me put out anything on a forum that is "made up by a boogeyman". My threads will ALWAYS contain information that is either an experience from me and/or experiences from others over the years. If I am not sure of something, you will ALWAYS hear me say that. I will also refer to the one person on this forum that i KNOW would be able to answer.

Feeding of mealworms would not be an experiment as it is done daily by many keepers and breeders. The only times that you truly run into problems is when you either
1. Feed worms far to large for the animal you are feeding them too
or
2. Temps are not high enough to allow for the dragon to properly digest the insects exoskeleton.

2 is the main culprit in most cases of impaction but because insects like mealworms tend to be associated with that impaction people blame the insect. I am fairly certain there are breeders on this site that are highly respected that feed mealworms to their babies. Why? Not to experiment. But because they can be successfully fed to a baby without any health recourse. I dont feed them but After the 4th week I do add small supers to the food lineup for my babies (dubia roach nymphs, turkistan nymphs, crix).

You can impact and/or kill a dragon with any feeder if his environment is not setup correctly. I just want to see some scientific proof that the chitin of a mealie is thicker and/or harder to digest than that of a super.

 

[li]

Again...I am just putting information out there from mine and many other's experiences. Yes I am sure there are many breeders that use them. I am also positive from experience that there are many that don't.

Not going to go back and forth on this subject. Obviously you feel it is okay to feed, I don't. That is the nice thing about forum, lots of information.

 

[crypticdragons]

Again...I am just putting information out there from mine and many other's experiences. Yes I am sure there are many breeders that use them. I am also positive from experience that there are many that don't.

Not going to go back and forth on this subject. Obviously you feel it is okay to feed, I don't. That is the nice thing about forum, lots of information.

Like I said, I do not feed mealworms to any of my animals at any age. But I will not tell people that they can't feed an insect to the reptile without having some proof that it is in fact not an efficient for of food. Everything I have ever read points towards keeper incompitence as the reason that there was a problem and not the insect chosen to be fed. You seem to be very defensive towards me. I swear its not a argument or back and forth banter (you just happen to be the only person responding lol). I just want to has out some proof that they are bad. And sufficient proof isn't that some people have killed their dragons feeding them, because people kill their animals daily in 100 different ways, be it insufficient food, carnivorous feeders left in a tank, insufficient lighting, and a cornucopia of others. And if Gina (the person you were referring to earlier) has facts on this topic than maybe she will post them as I have never been able to find anything other than heresay on the mealworm debate.

 

[zebraflavencs]

Brian, everyone is different in several aspects of husbandry . Lisa stated her opinion.. you stated yours.. It's all good.
Janie

 

[crypticdragons]

Brian, everyone is different in several aspects of husbandry . Lisa stated her opinion.. you stated yours.. It's all good.
Janie

Whatever you say. I will just put this (for myself) in the same category as telling people they need have their dragon 6 inches from their UV source.

 

[renich]

Yep, please keep in mind that there are several correct answers to one question when it comes to bearded dragon care. Let's refocus on the OP question. Can he feed mealworms to his bearded dragon or not. I recommend not feeding them.

 

[crypticdragons]

Yep, please keep in mind that there are several correct answers to one question when it comes to bearded dragon care. Let's refocus on the OP question. Can he feed mealworms to his bearded dragon or not. I recommend not feeding them.

That discussion was on topic by trying to get to the truth behind people saying no. I do not feel I was off topic in the least with that line of questioning.

If your dragons environment is setup correctly there is no reason that I see that mealworms could not be used as part of a dragons diet (note the word PART not the staple just part of a well rounded diet)

but apparently I was out of line in posting that information so I will just leave it alone.

 

[Vesta]

I always like to have the last word.........

 

[li]

LOL...OMG Vesta! I LOVE YOU!!!!

 

[Vesta]

LOVE YOU TOO LISA!!!! LOL!!! You totally get me!!!!

 

[li]

Talk tonight!

 

[Vesta]

You Betcha!!! Charging my phone right now!!!

 

[ladyknite]

I have a few things I’d like to say here

Regardless of what I know, what I can prove, what I’ve tested, or what I’ve recorded over the years, the information, like all information, is limited to certain scope. I run tests and such for my benefit. To get my answers. They’re not always par for the norm. Now just sit back and contemplate how easily those comments could be misconstrued to fit a particular situation. For instance………you mention how environment (essentially meaning husbandry) can cause problems with this feeder. So stop to compare what the few outside of the norm people practice and tell us we’re wrong in what we do. If we’re not, does that make you wrong? Or is it a difference of opinion and experience? You haven’t began to contemplate all the years of inbreeding and line breeding and the genetic abnormalities it created internally.

Lets trying doing the math. Add the grams. Mealworms weigh approximately 5 mg where a superworm weighs approximately 540 mg. How many of each is acceptable? When you look at that total and add up the Ca ratio do you possess an equivalent you can equal out at that time?

Lucky for us all, this isn’t all that’s left to contemplate with feeders.

Ok, so you wanted to know what I know. Here it is………for what it’s worth.

Mealworm chitin is a polysacharacide that has proteins incorporated into them. These make up a B structure, creating B-bends which allow for tight packing giving an extremely dense, strong, flexible, but not elastic covering we refer to as chitin. After an arthropod molts, the B sheets have not fully formed to add structural rigidity, but that does not decrease the amount of chitin. The endothelium cells of the lower digestive normally provides a non-thrombogenic surface that cleaves several factors in the coagulation of isolets caused by the formation of the chitin. The lag of coagulants in the bodies of reptiles are drastically affected by this consumption.

Note that this in no way states that it can’t be fed……simply gives you information to base your opinion provided its understandable.

If your dragons environment is setup correctly there is no reason that I see that mealworms could not be used as part of a dragons diet (note the word PART not the staple just part of a well rounded diet

Indicating there is some rule to what is correct and what isn’t? Again we’re back to differences of opinion.

This forum was comprised of people with different views, different practices, different opinions, newcomers and experienced keepers as well as breeders. That creates diversity. Diversity is a good thing. It’s what keeps us learning, and striving to become better keepers for the animals we keep. Yet at times, we get a bit a head strong and truly step on our own tongues. We’re not dictators or rule makers. We’re helpers. At least we’re supposed to be.

And last but not least.

And if Gina (the person you were referring to earlier) has facts on this topic than maybe she will post them as I have never been able to find anything other than heresay on the mealworm debate.

Since I wasn’t mentioned by name, I don’t appreciated being called to a post I had no intention of posting in. If I have information I WANT to post, I will.

 

[crypticdragons]

Since I wasn’t mentioned by name, I don’t appreciated being called to a post I had no intention of posting in. If I have information I WANT to post, I will.

Geez sorry I figured it was obvious to anyone that is active on the forum who she was referring to when this was typed

I will also refer to the one person on this forum that i KNOW would be able to answer.

But my bad. i wont do it again.

 

[Pogie]

Hi, I know I am new here but would like to add this to the mealworm discussion.

Personally I have given Pogie 3 mealworms (First week I had her) , then I read it was bad (On various sites and then I came apon the bottom pictures and story) for them and decided "Well I hope you enjoyed them , cos it was the 1st and last you'll ever get" And havent touched them since

If anyone gets grossed out easilly, dont look at the link I left at the end, I felt so bad, I cried, But maybe posting it will help.

Hi all, a 5year old female bearded dragon was brought into the practice severly dehydrated and ill thrifted after laying 30+ infertile eggs. The owner last fed meal worms 7 days ago. Nothing was fed since as the owner reports she was not interested in food. The owner declined any work up/treatment and opted for humane euthanesia with a follow up postmortem exam. I have his permission for photos for educational purpose.

fourth image = over 30 undigested meal worms were removed from the stomach - most of these had been fed many weeks ago as reported by the owner

This animal had excessive fat pads. When the owner was told of the PM results, they mentioned they did overfeed on meal worms as the beardie "liked them so much she ate so many she was sick". This is a word of advice to all beardie owners - please do not over feed live foods! they can block and cause impactions especially meal worms which are hard to digest in themselves. The cause of death for this animal was presumed exhausted after laying due to inadequate nutrition.
No parasites were noted at any stage though faecal exam was not perfomed

If anyone is interested in looking through the whole autopsy, heres the link. http://www.captivebredreptileforums...graphic-images-bearded-dragon-postmortem.html

I'm not saying all cases where mealworms are fed ends up like this, BUT IT COULD. . . and like Li said, why risk your precious poopers health if there are better things to feed.

Thats my 2c worth.

 

[li]

I've seen that neocropsy, it is disgusting, but very eye opening.

 

[Pogie]

Yeah, was for me . . .