Health issues with a front leg and a bulge

[Myshelinka]

Hello, I haven´t posted in a long time. Navi has been really well until a few weeks ago. Here´s the story.

20.03. I came home from a week away at my partners place, it was really late so Navi was already asleep and I didn´t see her move. Next morning I noticed she had difficulty walking and wasn´t using her front left leg, at all. I didn´t see much so i just thought shes being weird, but it continued until few hours later whne i came from school. At wednesday we were going to a vet, and before we left i noticed a very small bump right beside her leg she couldn´t move. At the vet they´ve given he ra shot and did some xrays, the vet said she was feisty and it probably hurts, the bump also got bigger, a lot bigger. probably from her being feisty because it later got smaller again. Xrays showed nothing is broken.

I also wanna point out, I was being stupid and regret my decision doing it, but I´ve had her on sand for some time when she got older, because a lot of people said the biggest risk it when theyre small. I regret and believe me i was so mad at myself afte rthe xrays showed she had sand inside, eventhough the vet said it wasn´t a big blockage, but there is some. They gave us some oil for her to eat to help release the blockage.

On thursday, she was a bit better, she could move the leg a bit. at the vet they took blood samples incase it was a gout (I think thats how you say it in english) and gave her a shot again. The result came in at friday, negative, again with another shot. It´s now been 2 and a half weeks, i give her medication (syrup) we got from the vet, one dose a day. She did get a lot better, she now can move her leg from her wrist up but that´s it. The bulge hasn´t gone away and she hasn´t pooped either. WE just came home from a 4 hour visit and her bump got really big (photos added, try to ignore the newspapers, it just a temporary sub) she was hiding in a dark place and it hurts a lot I think, she got all black and won´t let me touch her anywhere besides the chin.
(also she is the most friendly I´ve seen a beardie, she doesnt mind anyone handling her, touching her, and even if she gets mad, which si very rare, she didn´t bite once)

I´m really concerned with what is wrong with her, since I have her temps all right, her UVB is new, I got rid of the sand, she is eating properly and drinks properly. We have another vet check this tuesday. The vet doesn´t know what coudl have caused the leg to not work side from her somehow jumping? or just hurting herself in her enclosure, which i dont understand how she would do... The bulge was shown at their xrays at a mass of muscles/tissue, no organs or anything, but they haven´t turned down the option of it being a tumor, which would be weird because tumors dont change in size right? also haven´t turned down the option of amputating the arm if it doesnt get better...

Does anyone have a slight idea or even expirience with this, it would mean so much.

Thanks everyone in advance

 

[Sadie]

Hello, I haven´t posted in a long time. Navi has been really well until a few weeks ago. Here´s the story.

20.03. I came home from a week away at my partners place, it was really late so Navi was already asleep and I didn´t see her move. Next morning I noticed she had difficulty walking and wasn´t using her front left leg, at all. I didn´t see much so i just thought shes being weird, but it continued until few hours later whne i came from school. At wednesday we were going to a vet, and before we left i noticed a very small bump right beside her leg she couldn´t move. At the vet they´ve given he ra shot and did some xrays, the vet said she was feisty and it probably hurts, the bump also got bigger, a lot bigger. probably from her being feisty because it later got smaller again. Xrays showed nothing is broken.

I also wanna point out, I was being stupid and regret my decision doing it, but I´ve had her on sand for some time when she got older, because a lot of people said the biggest risk it when theyre small. I regret and believe me i was so mad at myself afte rthe xrays showed she had sand inside, eventhough the vet said it wasn´t a big blockage, but there is some. They gave us some oil for her to eat to help release the blockage.

On thursday, she was a bit better, she could move the leg a bit. at the vet they took blood samples incase it was a gout (I think thats how you say it in english) and gave her a shot again. The result came in at friday, negative, again with another shot. It´s now been 2 and a half weeks, i give her medication (syrup) we got from the vet, one dose a day. She did get a lot better, she now can move her leg from her wrist up but that´s it. The bulge hasn´t gone away and she hasn´t pooped either. WE just came home from a 4 hour visit and her bump got really big (photos added, try to ignore the newspapers, it just a temporary sub) she was hiding in a dark place and it hurts a lot I think, she got all black and won´t let me touch her anywhere besides the chin.
(also she is the most friendly I´ve seen a beardie, she doesnt mind anyone handling her, touching her, and even if she gets mad, which si very rare, she didn´t bite once)

I´m really concerned with what is wrong with her, since I have her temps all right, her UVB is new, I got rid of the sand, she is eating properly and drinks properly. We have another vet check this tuesday. The vet doesn´t know what coudl have caused the leg to not work side from her somehow jumping? or just hurting herself in her enclosure, which i dont understand how she would do... The bulge was shown at their xrays at a mass of muscles/tissue, no organs or anything, but they haven´t turned down the option of it being a tumor, which would be weird because tumors dont change in size right? also haven´t turned down the option of amputating the arm if it doesnt get better...

Does anyone have a slight idea or even expirience with this, it would mean so much.

Thanks everyone in advance

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I am going to enlist some help w/ your post -- the skin I am also concerned about - it looks like maybe a burn? How close is the basking bulb? It should not be closer than 6 inches -- please go over the whole tank husbandry - how are you getting basking temps they should be surface basking temps and 95-100-- taken w/ a digital probe thermometer -- the UVB is it a coil or a tube ? how old is the UVB? If its gout the only way to know is by blood work the vet would test for uric acid levels and then treat if it is gout-- I see the odd shape I am not sure what that is so this being said I am going to get some help on the whole issue here going on - in the mean time please post pics of the than and lighting -- what did you replace the sand w/ ?

 

[Myshelinka]

She shouldnt be burned, her basking bulb is about 9in from the ground of the enclosure. Taken with a digital probe thermometer, she has 36-37 C (97-100 F, just meassured it)
The UVB is a tube, I changed it 3 days ago, so its fresh, before she had it for a year because of issues with the company I orderred it from with delivery.
Gout was taken out of the question, they did the tests and they turned out in average numbers so its not a gout.
The sand is replaced with news paper for now, Im getting lino (non-stick one) cut up to shape of her enclosure, and outside that I have a pet carpet but it has to be washed.
I can post photos i got until now since I´ve been documenting these for the vet too.

Also a heads up, i just bathed her, she pooped, I can post the photo too if youd like? she pooped some sand out, no blood.

 

[Sadie]

She shouldnt be burned, her basking bulb is about 9in from the ground of the enclosure. Taken with a digital probe thermometer, she has 36-37 C (97-100 F, just meassured it)
The UVB is a tube, I changed it 3 days ago, so its fresh, before she had it for a year because of issues with the company I orderred it from with delivery.
Gout was taken out of the question, they did the tests and they turned out in average numbers so its not a gout.
The sand is replaced with news paper for now, Im getting lino (non-stick one) cut up to shape of her enclosure, and outside that I have a pet carpet but it has to be washed.
I can post photos i got until now since I´ve been documenting these for the vet too.

Also a heads up, i just bathed her, she pooped, I can post the photo too if youd like? she pooped some sand out, no blood.

Ok good no gout - I've got some more experienced looking at post including a vet tech

 

[Myshelinka]

These are photos from today, and the link is a video of her walking, its 1 day old but its still the same, nothing has changed there.

This is her enclosure, now that ive put lino inside
She has this UVB tube: Arcadia D3+ Desert Reptile Lamp 12.0 UVB T5 39W, 85cm/16mm
and this is her Basking lamp: Reptiplanet Daylight basking 75W
its a 100/40 enclosure

 

[Sadie]

View attachment 31841


These are photos from today, and the link is a video of her walking, its 1 day old but its still the same, nothing has changed there.

View attachment 31842View attachment 31843View attachment 31844

This is her enclosure, now that ive put lino inside
She has this UVB tube: Arcadia D3+ Desert Reptile Lamp 12.0 UVB T5 39W, 85cm/16mm
and this is her Basking lamp: Reptiplanet Daylight basking 75W
its a 100/40 enclosure

Tank set up looks real good - I am thinking they need to draw fluid from the abscess or cyst- not sure what that is and the walking to - I am thinking the abscess/ cyst is effecting that but I am no vet- I would like the people I have contacted can chime in here- the vet tech is usually on late at night

 

[Myshelinka]

Glad to hear I did a good job on the setup. I did read up on cysts/tumors/abscesses, and I dont think it could be a cyst, since cysts are supposed to be a puss/fluid collection? and the vet told and showed us that the bulge is muscle/tissue. its really firm to touch, doesnt feel soft but maybe im just trying to be careful and arent pressing on it enough. Right now she is back in her enclosure after the bath and a little run around the room, she even tried to climb up my bed, she pooped again a bit and now shes falling asleep, still black on her chin.
It would be great if they could come into this, i dont mind waiting for a reply or anything, we have a check in with our vet on tuesday, im going to be documenting Navi for the time being and continue with the medication we´ve been given. I tihnk I´ll update here how that went after the checkup.
Im just sad that she´s obviously in pain...

 

[Sadie]

Glad to hear I did a good job on the setup. I did read up on cysts/tumors/abscesses, and I dont think it could be a cyst, since cysts are supposed to be a puss/fluid collection? and the vet told and showed us that the bulge is muscle/tissue. its really firm to touch, doesnt feel soft but maybe im just trying to be careful and arent pressing on it enough. Right now she is back in her enclosure after the bath and a little run around the room, she even tried to climb up my bed, she pooped again a bit and now shes falling asleep, still black on her chin.
It would be great if they could come into this, i dont mind waiting for a reply or anything, we have a check in with our vet on tuesday, im going to be documenting Navi for the time being and continue with the medication we´ve been given. I tihnk I´ll update here how that went after the checkup.
Im just sad that she´s obviously in pain...

Ok- please get copies of the visit the vet tech is real good at reading x-rays and test results- and yes I am thinking she is in pain--

 

[Sadie]

I heard back from one of the people I reached out to -- this is what she has said

Poor girl, I'm not sure what it is , my first guess would be some type of growth like a tumor or a cyst. A biopsy would help, I don't have any other thoughts on what this could be. I hope that you'll be able to find out and that Navi will be O.K.
I will hope to hear from the vet tech tonite on her thoughts and advisement

 

[Myshelinka]

Thank you for the message, I'll try to get the x-rays from our vet, i have no idea what will be happening on Tuesday or even today if she looks bad, which will probably be the case...

 

[Sadie]

Thank you for the message, I'll try to get the x-rays from our vet, i have no idea what will be happening on Tuesday or even today if she looks bad, which will probably be the case...

Please do not have them do an enema they often end in disaster --
If they want a fecal please bring one in -- NO enemas please

 

[Myshelinka]

Update from the vet

I didnt get my hands on the xrays sadly, but maybe later on, you´ll know why later in this.
The vet poked at the bulge, she tried to penetrate inside and such, to identify it, and the result was: Harder on top, soft everywhere else and blood inside (she said either a cyst/hemo-something, or a tumor, but since its blood and changes size, its a bit unlikely) So she took some blood out, gave her antibiotics for her leg and we have another check up tomorrow. She said that if it didnt get better, she would send us to Prague to some more expirienced vet, and it would maybe lead to an operation depending on what they discover.

Right now we are at home, she is back in the enclosure heating up after the trip home and Im seeing that the bulge has got smaller, quite a lot (you can see for yourself on pictures). I´m thinking maybe the antibiotics did something?

I would be really happy if I end up just goign for antibiotic shots every once in a while for he rto get better...


Also, I´d like to ask this, What is the best way to transport her? right now we carry her in a kind of a transparent box, on the bottom she has a felt, she has plenty of space to move, she usually just sleeps through the trip anyways, but the drive is only 25 minutes, and if we have to go to Prague its a whole 1 hour and 20 minutes, so im afraid she will get cold. I dont really know how to solve this since I dont have expirience, would be really glad if anyone could give advice.

 

[Sadie]

Update from the vet

I didnt get my hands on the xrays sadly, but maybe later on, you´ll know why later in this.
The vet poked at the bulge, she tried to penetrate inside and such, to identify it, and the result was: Harder on top, soft everywhere else and blood inside (she said either a cyst/hemo-something, or a tumor, but since its blood and changes size, its a bit unlikely) So she took some blood out, gave her antibiotics for her leg and we have another check up tomorrow. She said that if it didnt get better, she would send us to Prague to some more expirienced vet, and it would maybe lead to an operation depending on what they discover.

Right now we are at home, she is back in the enclosure heating up after the trip home and Im seeing that the bulge has got smaller, quite a lot (you can see for yourself on pictures). I´m thinking maybe the antibiotics did something?

I would be really happy if I end up just goign for antibiotic shots every once in a while for he rto get better...


Also, I´d like to ask this, What is the best way to transport her? right now we carry her in a kind of a transparent box, on the bottom she has a felt, she has plenty of space to move, she usually just sleeps through the trip anyways, but the drive is only 25 minutes, and if we have to go to Prague its a whole 1 hour and 20 minutes, so im afraid she will get cold. I dont really know how to solve this since I dont have expirience, would be really glad if anyone could give advice.

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Not sure why they would give antibiotics w/ out blood work to see if her white count was up for infection- we need Tracie to look at her x-rays have them email them to you- shedding will cause limbs to swell but I don't see any signs of that- as far as car rides look on Amazon search small animal carriers- I have two for my two dragons- she will be fine out of the tank for awhile - usually I have my daughter w/ and she will open the mesh top and hiccup will sit on top of the carrier looking out the window in the sun on the ride there-- it's a 45 minute ride one way to the vet- he loves to go we have taken him into fast food places and opened up the door on his carrier that lays down so he can see when we're eating - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JZ31KX9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_4N0ADA1J4J643K4N41MC. Mine is similar to this

 

[Myshelinka]

Not sure why they would give antibiotics w/ out blood work to see if her white count was up for infection- we need Tracie to look at her x-rays have them email them to you- shedding will cause limbs to swell but I don't see any signs of that- as far as car rides look on Amazon search small animal carriers- I have two for my two dragons- she will be fine out of the tank for awhile - usually I have my daughter w/ and she will open the mesh top and hiccup will sit on top of the carrier looking out the window in the sun on the ride there-- it's a 45 minute ride one way to the vet- he loves to go we have taken him into fast food places and opened up the door on his carrier that lays down so he can see when we're eating - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JZ31KX9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_4N0ADA1J4J643K4N41MC. Mine is similar to this

Well to be honest the vet we have, has 3 different doctors, and one of them seems unexpirienced/young and uninterested in the work, the other two are great, but sadly they have different work times and today we got the worse one...
I´ll ask again tomorrow for the xrays again.
she has shed recently but only her lower side more to her back legs and there was no stuck shed or anything, it wasnt much either so i dont think thats the case too.

Oh okay, I didnt think about a casual pet carrier, I though a firm bottom of the carrier is a must for them. I´ll look for some. And so youre suggestiing not to get any heaters in the carrier then? I live in Czechia and right now its quite cold outside, usually from 32F to 50F. I do think shes gonna be alright wiithout heating for some time, it was the vet assistant that was a bit concerned tbh.

Also if you dont mind me asking, I tend to go away from home for the weekend (visiting my partner) from time to time, do you think its okay/good to setup a temporary enclosure at his place? if yes then how much limited can it be so its not a full time/fullcost enclosure? I´ve been thinking about it because if we do have to go to the vet in Prague, my partner is 20 minutes away from there so I could possibly stay at his place, have her there for the weekend with me so I can keep watch on her. The only other person living with me is my mum and she doesnt spend a lot of time at home, thus not being able to keep an eye on her.

 

[Sadie]

Well to be honest the vet we have, has 3 different doctors, and one of them seems unexpirienced/young and uninterested in the work, the other two are great, but sadly they have different work times and today we got the worse one...
I´ll ask again tomorrow for the xrays again.
she has shed recently but only her lower side more to her back legs and there was no stuck shed or anything, it wasnt much either so i dont think thats the case too.

Oh okay, I didnt think about a casual pet carrier, I though a firm bottom of the carrier is a must for them. I´ll look for some. And so youre suggestiing not to get any heaters in the carrier then? I live in Czechia and right now its quite cold outside, usually from 32F to 50F. I do think shes gonna be alright wiithout heating for some time, it was the vet assistant that was a bit concerned tbh.

Also if you dont mind me asking, I tend to go away from home for the weekend (visiting my partner) from time to time, do you think its okay/good to setup a temporary enclosure at his place? if yes then how much limited can it be so its not a full time/fullcost enclosure? I´ve been thinking about it because if we do have to go to the vet in Prague, my partner is 20 minutes away from there so I could possibly stay at his place, have her there for the weekend with me so I can keep watch on her. The only other person living with me is my mum and she doesnt spend a lot of time at home, thus not being able to keep an eye on her.

A 20 gallon tote would work -- you would need to get a basking light w/ a clamp and take your uvb - use newspapers for substrate - those are ideas- stuff that's portable-

 

[Myshelinka]

A 20 gallon tote would work -- you would need to get a basking light w/ a clamp and take your uvb - use newspapers for substrate - those are ideas- stuff that's portable-

So something like this for the tote? https://www.hornbach.cz/shop/Ulozny...VZtd93PUN4cgASxB_rbCavMwbwkyls0BoC9vsQAvD_BwE

something like this for the basking? https://www.terasvet.cz/reflektory/...xy__jLp2WVIZQPzWH0JBOgGv7qWWBUQxoCGGgQAvD_BwE

And I know coil UVB is bad, but I cant really take mine from the tank, its 80cm long and screwed into the top of the tank, so would it be okay if I got the coil UVB for the temporary tote or is it really important to have the tube? in that case I would have to buy new one, shorter too.
Also, if I set it up, I just place the lights at the lid right? or do I have to kinda drill holes into the lid and secure it?

 

[Sadie]

So something like this for the tote? https://www.hornbach.cz/shop/Ulozny...VZtd93PUN4cgASxB_rbCavMwbwkyls0BoC9vsQAvD_BwE

something like this for the basking? https://www.terasvet.cz/reflektory/...xy__jLp2WVIZQPzWH0JBOgGv7qWWBUQxoCGGgQAvD_BwE

And I know coil UVB is bad, but I cant really take mine from the tank, its 80cm long and screwed into the top of the tank, so would it be okay if I got the coil UVB for the temporary tote or is it really important to have the tube? in that case I would have to buy new one, shorter too.
Also, if I set it up, I just place the lights at the lid right? or do I have to kinda drill holes into the lid and secure it?

If you can get a screen and place it 3/4 on w/ a Zoo Med Reptisun T8 fixture (18 or 20 inch) that would be perfect use the bulb it comes w/ its a 5.0 bulb but you can use it -- its not as strong as the 10.0 and good for smaller tanks- place the fixture at the end of the tote and butt the screen up to it so you can place the basking lamp next to it --- forget the clamp just get a dome if it comes w/ a clamp thats fine if you need it use -- you want a longer tote not so high - a tote of between 12 and 18 inches high the UVB needs to be unobstructed and approx 6-8 inches directly above the dragon -- 5.0 bulbs are not as strong and they will not go thru screen - you will probably need a 50-75 watt bulb - I had a 20 gallon tank set up for Blaze and used a 75 watt on it and the T 8 fixture - I will post you can also set that tank up like mine but Blaze was so little he couldnt jump to get it so the screen was left off -- Please NO coils --- are you going to be using the tote as a one time thing or plan to use more? Look for a 20 gallon tote -- this is going to be lighter than a regular glass aquarium to move -- make sure you take a digital probe thermometer w/ you so you can keep track of basking temps -- you dont want to burn him up and smaller areas / tanks are hard to keep basking temps - check the cool side of the tote / tank as well --
The basking light is on the end of the tank w/ a clamp and the UVB fixture is in the middle of the tank ignore the light hanging it was a CHE I didnt use it -- if you need to get a screen get your dimensions of the tote you get and then look for a screen -- here is a pic of a hospital tote set up similar to what I am talking about -- No drilling its simply placing every thing on top of a screen -- it looks like chicken wire was used on the lighting end

 

[Sadie]

I heard back from Tracie here is what she has said
That dragon likely has some type of tumor! I read through the thread.
Are they getting their dragon to the vet?

 

[Myshelinka]

Not sure why they would give antibiotics w/ out blood work to see if her white count was up for infection- we need Tracie to look at her x-rays have them email them to you- shedding will cause limbs to swell but I don't see any signs of that- as far as car rides look on Amazon search small animal carriers- I have two for my two dragons- she will be fine out of the tank for awhile - usually I have my daughter w/ and she will open the mesh top and hiccup will sit on top of the carrier looking out the window in the sun on the ride there-- it's a 45 minute ride one way to the vet- he loves to go we have taken him into fast food places and opened up the door on his carrier that lays down so he can see when we're eating - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JZ31KX9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_4N0ADA1J4J643K4N41MC. Mine is similar to this

Hey I´m back.
Yesterday at the vet, they gave her some more antibiotics, saying its probably what made the bulge get smaller. After we got back home the bulge got smaller again, so i think the antibiotics are helping her with it. The vet also described it that it has lost the soft structure and it is now more firm, and that most likely no surgery is needed and it can be treated.
The bulge really is smaller after the 2 doses of antibiotics. Today we are visiting the vet again.
I also got the xray they did.

 

[Myshelinka]

I heard back from Tracie here is what she has said
That dragon likely has some type of tumor! I read through the thread.
Are they getting their dragon to the vet?

Yes I´ve rushed Navi to the vet the very next day I noticed she couldnt move her leg well, the bulge was the second thing, it appeared at the day we left to visit the vet for the first time. So the leg was first and then the bulge, it was reaaaaaallly small when we left. It changed sizes all the time. its now 3 weeks we´ve been visiting the vet.