WIBLIT Morph What's The Deal?

[beardielover17]

What is this morph and why is it fetching a couple grand on the market? to me it looks like nothing more than a leucistic dragon so please care to explain, flame and discuss

 

[crypticdragons]

Well first off I want to point out that a leucistic dragon (as of yet that is) does not exist, at least not per the deffinition of leucism. Now there are dragons that are lacking of color and are marketed as leucistics but they are not true leucistic reptiles. So now that that is out of the way.

There are many "theories" in regards to the witblit morph out of south africa. Issue being that no one knows because the breeder either has no idea what they are doing or is just very good at acting like they have no idea. This "morph" is the result of a genetic anamoly from breeding two apparently normal siblings (per the breeder). For whatever reason (and i have discussed this with others) they, to me, look like they have some mitchelli in their recent background as well. The parents are 18 inches (male) and 16 inches (female) and from what I have been told by the only US breeder currently working with the line these offspring top out at 14-16 inches in length. Due to their body shape they look almost alien (the long lanky legs is a result of inbreeding can be seen often in closely related pairings).

As far as the patternless look that has been around already (a line has been around in japan for a few years now known as the silverback). It is unknown if this is the same trait or not but they look identical. The person breeding these animals is only attempting to make money as they have not even taken the time to prove this line out. So what is it? In my opinion it is a unhealthy unproven inbred genetic trait that someone is trying to make (and im quoting the breeder on this) "thousands of dollars" producing.

 

[lexi]

The breeder of the WitBlits seems rather vague for my taste. He talks a whole lot about making money and not much about anything else. I have also not seen any photos of an adult WitBlits. If someone knows of one, I would love to see it, just to satisfy my curiosity more than anything else as I don't have $4K to drop on a dragon.

 

[beardielover17]

I've watched many discussions on other forums and have gotten bits of info here and there. Honestly to me, no matter how it came about, it does not justify a $4000+ price tag. No animal does IMO

 

[Red Ink AUS]

4k for the 16 "known/labelled" witblits which the breeder says have been the only ones ever produced. How do you know it's not a genetic deficiency? How do you know it can be reproduced? What kinda so called "breeder" would offload a new line as a whole clutch.? Does that not seem odd, I for one have alarm bells ringing in my head. 4k for an unproven line come off it mate, me and Bri nutted this out in private and the breeder of the witblits posted on an Australian forum boasting/selling of his new dragons (biiiiiig mistake) ages ago. Well after the newbies went oooh.. aaahhh the more experienced dragon keepers got stuck into them lol, the outcome was not very nice.

I can tell you know that there are anomalies in the photos in his site taxonomy wise as to the identification of the dragons lineage. All of the Aussies (experienced keepers) on the forum witblits posted on picked up on that right away. Their mistake was posting on a forum where everybody is exposed to a gamut of pagona species and 70% of members could easily identify between subspecies with relative ease (see where I'm getting at here guys ) I suggest everybody search google for pics of P.mitchelli and P.minor then open the witblits site (their pics gallery) on a new window side by side and tell me what you guys see.

The breeder even had the audacity/stupidity to show pics of the original breeders on there so you can compare them to the babies lol. No amount of inbreeding of P.vitticeps will give you a "witblits" there's something else in the mix.

Ohh just for reference for you guys, the new patternless morphs that some people (other forums) seem to be going all WOW about are not new, no one "invented them", and they are a lot older than people think.

 

[beardielover17]

Thanks for the input Francis. I just can't imagine someone selling a dragon that, to me doesn't have much to oohhh and ahhh about for $4k WITHOUT import and shipping costs. I can only hope for the animals sake that things aren't being done wrong/unethical during this whole process.

 

[zebraflavencs]

I'd pay that for one of Francis' outside neighbors
But I think I'd rather be one of the neighbors so I could watch them in their own natural environment... cooler...
Janie.

 

[beardielover17]

Agreed! If I lived in the natural territory of the dragons I wouldn't need pets. Just a hammock in the back yard and a camera to photograph them.

 

[zebraflavencs]

*nods*
Janie

 

[crypticdragons]

here is a "adult" witblit
http://www.reptilegeeks.com/user/gallery/view/name_PhantomDragons/id_94458/album_2245/
http://www.reptilegeeks.com/user/gallery/view/name_PhantomDragons/id_94457/album_2245/

 

[beardielover17]

i gotta agree with francis that doesnt look like pure vitticeps to me

 

[lexi]

here is a "adult" witblit
http://www.reptilegeeks.com/user/gallery/view/name_PhantomDragons/id_94458/album_2245/
http://www.reptilegeeks.com/user/gallery/view/name_PhantomDragons/id_94457/album_2245/

Thanks for posting those. They are interesting and pretty but there are too many areas (as others have already mentioned) where there is a question of honesty and integrity.

These photos are from the few imported into the states, right? I will be interested to see what other breeders have to say about these guys when there are more out there in the market.

 

[crypticdragons]

Josh has had them for over a year the ones he has are from the very first clutch made publicly available.

Candice me and francis agree there is something being "held back" as to the genetics of these dragons but what can ya do. If folks got more money than sense they will spend it.

 

[beardielover17]

I just hope that this "morph" can be healthy. If the breeder can achieve healthy animals I can't ask for much. I'd rather seen a healthy/happy animal at a high price than a sickly one

 

[Red Ink AUS]

So lets compare shall we

Pics of adult witblits
http://www.reptilegeeks.com/user/gallery/view/name_PhantomDragons/id_94457/album_2245/

Pics of
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y8SPOeejPyY/SArUYalsZiI/AAAAAAAAABk/K2Xk6iEH6XQ/S660/mitchelli++male.jpg

http://i69.servimg.com/u/f69/12/39/07/59/pogona15.jpg

What do you guys think??? Notice some similarities. Hmmmmm

 

[crypticdragons]

head and body composition is almost identical to those mitchelli pictures you posted links to

only thing that i wonder is the patternless look. has this been seen in the mitchelli line? also, were those a exported line?

 

[Red Ink AUS]

The pics are Australian mate, they are from an Australian breeder and the Western Australian government. I have no first hand experience with P.mitchelli as they are not allowed on the states were I am. Whether or not there are naturally occuring patternless mitchellis i can't confirm. But it does'nt take much to see the resemblance though.

By Exported do you mean originally like P.vitticeps??? P.mitchellis can be found outside of the US in Europe as the black market trade for them is bigger over there. Same as P.barbatas and P.henrylawsonii, the germans in particular (Hamm Reptile expo) have a miriad of Australian species available to them. Some species they can get even I can't get my hands on lol.

 

[crypticdragons]

Damn really

so anyone wanna go to the hamburg reptile expo with me next year lol.

but yeah i was meaning back when vitticeps were originally exported. though i guess it wouldnt be to hard for someone in south africa to get their hands on some outta the black market too.

 

[Twobeardieguy]

I'm there with you Bri!

 

[lexi]

head and body composition is almost identical to those mitchelli pictures you posted links to

There is obviously more to the story than he's letting on.