UVB

[beardie_love]

So, the UVB produces vitamin D3... is this all it does for bearded dragons that they need?

 

[crypticdragons]

UV light doesnt produce d3. UV light helps the dragon produce their own d3 and aids in calcium uptake/bone strength.

 

[beardie_love]

Okay I got this wrong.. I meant like, what does that "Repti-Sun 10.0" produce/give to bearded dragons?

 

[Red Ink AUS]

Okay I got this wrong.. I meant like, what does that "Repti-Sun 10.0" produce/give to bearded dragons?

The UVB lights you have mentioned do just that the emit medium wave ultraviolet radiation round the 360NM (at a peak) range. This part of the spectrum is absorb through the dragon epidermis triggering the production of vitamin D3 (no difference to humans). Vitamin D3 is an essential bonding enzyme/vitamin in a bearded dragons metabolism in order for it to turn its calcium intake into CA3 (don't quote me on the specifics I'm running of my memory from years ago). This form of calcium carbonate is what reptiles need in other to produce bigger and stronger bones (i.e. they use it to bind to the bones to make them longer and bigger as they grow). Without the inclusion of UVB source in an enclosure in captivity some reptiles are not able to produce D3 hence any calcium intake they get is pretty much useless as it does not turn into CA3??. Prolonged lack of exposure to a UVB source be it artificial or natural will in no doubt lead to metabolic bone disease, a condition in which their bones are weaker and subsequently become deformed. This condition left untreated can lead to a myriad of other problems such as organ failure/shut down and eventually a slow painfull death.

Some reference reading on the subject.
http://www.arwh.org/ARWH_Admin/Mana...197/Common Diseases of Reptiles_no_images.pdf

http://www.reptilemedicine.com.au/artic.html

 

[beardie_love]

So if UVB helps produce vitamin D, what would be the difference with using a calcium powder that has vitamin D in it?

 

[renich]

Some would argue that it is not enough. Bearded dragons in captivity are said to require more D3 than can be produced by lighting. It is not the amount that the sun can provide.

I just responded in another post that my herp vet indicated that D3 was not needed for beardies in captivity. But he also indicated that daily natural sunlight is required.

 

[beardie_love]

Makes sense. So, I currently have my 2 beardies in a 70 gallon but it's split in half (cardboard separating the 2 sides). Would it be okay to get one fixture and that Repti-Sun 10.0 and put it in the middle of the tank on the top? So that they would both be getting that lighting, but sharing the one light.

 

[beardie_love]

Okay so I went to that link you gave me in the other topic, and I saw this:

"We feel UVB indoor lights are not needed if dragons are fed a proper diet; and supplemented with Vitamin D3. A calcium/D3 supplement, like RepCal can be used in place of the UVB bulb. The dragon still received its needed Vitamin D3, but instead of producing it itself, it is given dietarily."

 

[lexi]

Okay so I went to that link you gave me in the other topic, and I saw this:

"We feel UVB indoor lights are not needed if dragons are fed a proper diet; and supplemented with Vitamin D3. A calcium/D3 supplement, like RepCal can be used in place of the UVB bulb. The dragon still received its needed Vitamin D3, but instead of producing it itself, it is given dietarily."

Every product that I've seen (ZooMed, RepCal and Miner-All) all state that they have "safe levels of D3", which means they are meant to be used in conjuction with a UVB light source. The amount of D3 in these products is not sufficient enough to prevent things like metabolic bone disease and other issues. Unless you are veterinary nutritionist or herpetologist I doubt you can provide a diet that would supply enough D3 to forgo using a UVB light.

Secondary to that, your job as the pet owner is to attempt to replicate the positive aspects of their natural environment. This means providing a UVB source (aka, "the sun" in captivity). My beardie that I adopted did not have a good UVB source in his previous home (the bulb was old and no longer provided a good amount, if any, UVB). When we set up the new mercury vapor bulb we bought, he immediately went completely dark and ran over to it, trying to get as close as possible before we could even get it fully set up. Even if your beardie has never been in the wild, they have the same physical anatomy as wild beardies - they know when UVB is present and gravitate to it.

Reptile experts, herpetologists and countless vets recommend a UVB light source. I think, by going against that and taking advice from the small percentage of people who disagree, you are taking a big risk with your beardies lives.

From Melissa Kaplan's site: http://www.anapsid.org/mbd.html
"There remains much debate as to the necessity of and efficacy of natural and artificially produced ultraviolet B wavelengths in the development of precursors to vitamin D3 and the metabolism of calcium. Gehrmann (1991) reports anecdotally that not all lizards require UVB to maintain proper D3-calcium-phosphorus balance. Bernard, et al. (1991) found that the green iguana (Iguana iguana) fared much better when exposed to ultraviolet B wavelengths than they did to vitamin D3 injections or supplements added to their food. As both ultraviolet A, which acts upon appetite and behavior, and ultraviolet B wavelengths are more likely to benefit lizards and chelonians than not, long daily periods of access to such wavelengths should be considered a necessary part of the care of diurnal lizards and all chelonians (Alberts, 1994), and should figure as a prominent part in the daily care and maintenance of reptiles who commonly suffer from MBD in captivity, such as the green iguana."

Bearded Dragons are diurnal (awake in the day and asleep at night) lizards.

 

[beardie_love]

Is someone able to answer my question above about using one UVB/UVA light for my tank?

 

[Red Ink AUS]

Is someone able to answer my question above about using one UVB/UVA light for my tank?

As long as each compartment is seperately heated with it's own basking lamp and the UVB lamp covers 1/3 of each compartment then it's OK.

 

[zebraflavencs]

I would also like to point out, that that quote you made, sounds as if it were printed back when uvb lighting was new.. the husbandry practices of that day and age are quite different then now.. Then the keeper of dragons would indeed use foods as the main source of vitamins and calcium... Now we have supplements, and uvb... The animals are better for the use of them... You can scan through the health part of this forum.. you'll see a whole lot of us suggesting/emphasizing the need for use of both calcium with proper uvb... why allow an animal to get Metabolic Bone Disease, just because we won't or choose not to invest in these items..
Said my peace...lol
Janie

 

[beardie_love]

Is someone able to answer my question above about using one UVB/UVA light for my tank?

As long as each compartment is seperately heated with it's own basking lamp and the UVB lamp covers 1/3 of each compartment then it's OK.

Thank you!

 

[beardie_love]

I would also like to point out, that that quote you made, sounds as if it were printed back when uvb lighting was new.. the husbandry practices of that day and age are quite different then now.. Then the keeper of dragons would indeed use foods as the main source of vitamins and calcium... Now we have supplements, and uvb... The animals are better for the use of them... You can scan through the health part of this forum.. you'll see a whole lot of us suggesting/emphasizing the need for use of both calcium with proper uvb... why allow an animal to get Metabolic Bone Disease, just because we won't or choose not to invest in these items..
Said my peace...lol
Janie

I know what you mean though (at that last part). I want to do anything I can to properly take care of my beardies. Because, money is my issue, about buying the whole UV bulbs that I need. Because I got the wrong information, and in that case, I never thought I'd be spending as much as I am now. I don't even spend any more money on myself now hahah. And now that I gotta buy that Repti-Sun bulb, I gotta buy 2, which will cost me like $120?!, I don't randomly get that kind of money (no job), so at least I'm going to make the effort to buy one for both of them to share, temporarily. 8)

 

[zebraflavencs]

Where are you located ? I doubt I paid out $40 for the two I needed for Yardley's enclosure last year. Brand spanking new... maybe I can help you find a more reasonable price... would that change your view ?
Janie

 

[crypticdragons]

yeah you can order that bulb online at petmountain.com for around 22 or so shipped

 

[zebraflavencs]

It occurs to me... for $12 at a home depot or Lowes you can find a 4' fixture to fit a 4' bulb... I did that... still have the fixture... a duel, though all you need is a single.
Janie

 

[beardie_love]

I live in Manitoba, Canada. The Repti-Sun's I found were between 32-38 $. It's crazy! So 2 of those will be about $80, then I gotta get 2 of those fluorescent fixtures! And those, which I have no idea the cost of! (Someone said they start at about $10?!?!) SOOO yeah that is my situation haha. I'd love to order online, but I've never ordered online, nor do I have a credit card lol!! HELP! Hahah

 

[zebraflavencs]

Okay. pm me...
Janie

 

[zebraflavencs]

Problem solved ... for now...
Janie