Upper Respiratory Infection--Bleeding eye

[LindaSees]

Hi everyone,

Wanted to see if anyone else has gone through this. About a month ago, my 9-year-old Bearded Dragon developed an upper respiratory infection. (I realize now his humidity was way too high due to the fact that I got into fish keeping during the pandemic. 8 fishtanks in his room with him. Humidity levels were at about 40 percent, but I assumed his hot side/heat lamp would suffice to bring that down. It's my fault. Got a dehumidifier and all the fishtanks are gone.) I came home from work and both of his eyes were bulging, closed, glued shut with goo. He could hardly move. Mouth was bloody and foamy. He kept gaping his mouth open, gasping for air, and I rushed him to the emergency room.

For reference, I did know something was off. #1 He refused to drink water during his weekly bath time for MONTHS. I'm talking, 10 months. I would drip it on him and tried to remedy this by giving him cucumbers, Goliath worms, etc., anything with excess water in it. #2 He didn't brumate but was eating like normal and acting normal. So I didn't think too much of it. Then on a Friday he stopped eating (thought maybe he was brumating late) and by Monday he was in the terrible state that caused me to drive him to the emergency room.

They gave him IV fluids since he was severely dehydrated and started him on an antibiotic injection. The next day at home, he was still very much sick but wanted to eat again. Every day, he gets better and is acting more like himself. But his left eye was still closed and super infected. I started using drops I found at the pet shop, but then decided to bring him to a specialist that the veterinarian recommended at the emergency room.

The specialist did bloodwork and he's on the mend, bacteria is slowly being defeated. But his left eye was still a hot mess, so the veterinarian (again, specialist who I drove 1 hour and a half to see) gave me an additional antibiotic eye drop to put directly into his eye. She said the antibiotic injection is also for the eyes as it's all part of the infection, however, this would be a nice secondary thing to add. Every time I drop the eye drops in, he HATES it and tries to scratch his eyeball. (Vet checked his eyes and said cornea, etc. all in tact and the eye is functioning fine.)

Yesterday, I gave him his first bath in a long time. And he drank so much water! Colored up! Got his injection and didn't even move. (3 more injections left!) He opened his left eye and it was looking better! Basking on his log! Eating a ton! Acting 100 percent normal! I put in his twice daily eye drop and then....

He freaked. Kept scratching it. Rubbing it everywhere. When I went back down to check on him, there was blood all over his tank. And his eye was bleeding like crazy.

My questions are:
1. Can I stop the antibiotics because clearly it hurts him?
2. How can I stop him from scratching his eye?
3. Any remedies to sooth the eye?
4. Anyone go through this with an upper respiratory infection? Will his eye get better?

I've attached some photos for reference. (I put a photo right after his injection/bath, right before putting in the eyedrops. And then the other two photos are AFTER the eyedrops.) My poor guy. He is 9 years old which I know is up there in dragon years, but I hate to see him suffer so. Let me know if you have any advice! After spending $782 on vet bills, I'm looking for something a little more free. Thanks so much.

 

[Sadie]

Hi everyone,

Wanted to see if anyone else has gone through this. About a month ago, my 9-year-old Bearded Dragon developed an upper respiratory infection. (I realize now his humidity was way too high due to the fact that I got into fish keeping during the pandemic. 8 fishtanks in his room with him. Humidity levels were at about 40 percent, but I assumed his hot side/heat lamp would suffice to bring that down. It's my fault. Got a dehumidifier and all the fishtanks are gone.) I came home from work and both of his eyes were bulging, closed, glued shut with goo. He could hardly move. Mouth was bloody and foamy. He kept gaping his mouth open, gasping for air, and I rushed him to the emergency room.

For reference, I did know something was off. #1 He refused to drink water during his weekly bath time for MONTHS. I'm talking, 10 months. I would drip it on him and tried to remedy this by giving him cucumbers, Goliath worms, etc., anything with excess water in it. #2 He didn't brumate but was eating like normal and acting normal. So I didn't think too much of it. Then on a Friday he stopped eating (thought maybe he was brumating late) and by Monday he was in the terrible state that caused me to drive him to the emergency room.

They gave him IV fluids since he was severely dehydrated and started him on an antibiotic injection. The next day at home, he was still very much sick but wanted to eat again. Every day, he gets better and is acting more like himself. But his left eye was still closed and super infected. I started using drops I found at the pet shop, but then decided to bring him to a specialist that the veterinarian recommended at the emergency room.

The specialist did bloodwork and he's on the mend, bacteria is slowly being defeated. But his left eye was still a hot mess, so the veterinarian (again, specialist who I drove 1 hour and a half to see) gave me an additional antibiotic eye drop to put directly into his eye. She said the antibiotic injection is also for the eyes as it's all part of the infection, however, this would be a nice secondary thing to add. Every time I drop the eye drops in, he HATES it and tries to scratch his eyeball. (Vet checked his eyes and said cornea, etc. all in tact and the eye is functioning fine.)

Yesterday, I gave him his first bath in a long time. And he drank so much water! Colored up! Got his injection and didn't even move. (3 more injections left!) He opened his left eye and it was looking better! Basking on his log! Eating a ton! Acting 100 percent normal! I put in his twice daily eye drop and then....

He freaked. Kept scratching it. Rubbing it everywhere. When I went back down to check on him, there was blood all over his tank. And his eye was bleeding like crazy.

My questions are:
1. Can I stop the antibiotics because clearly it hurts him?
2. How can I stop him from scratching his eye?
3. Any remedies to sooth the eye?
4. Anyone go through this with an upper respiratory infection? Will his eye get better?

I've attached some photos for reference. (I put a photo right after his injection/bath, right before putting in the eyedrops. And then the other two photos are AFTER the eyedrops.) My poor guy. He is 9 years old which I know is up there in dragon years, but I hate to see him suffer so. Let me know if you have any advice! After spending $782 on vet bills, I'm looking for something a little more free. Thanks so much.

Please go over the UVB your using --- is it a coil or a tube? Basking bulb what are you using for that? Please no daytime bulbs they have a neoyidium coating on them that causes eye issues also colored bulbs -- you want a solid bright white basking bulb --- example a Exo Terra Intense bulb or a Zoo Med Repti basking bulb -- I have enlisted some help w/ this --

 

[Sadie]

Also please tell me what kind of substrate-- and for now I would stop the eye drops till we can figure out what is causing the issue -- please get some raw unpasteurized honey apply two times per day do not leave any crickets in the tank they will go straight for the eye -- you can use a Q tip to put the honey on --

Honey - Bacteria's Worst Enemy! | Health

Some of you might have seen the suggestion on this site every once in awhile to put some honey on an open sore, or to place it over an infection. This might sound strange, but honey truly is a great anti-bacterial. It can really come in handy in a pinch while you wait for a vet visit, or simply...

www.beardeddragon.org

 

[Sadie]

Also please tell me what kind of substrate-- and for now I would stop the eye drops till we can figure out what is causing the issue -- please get some raw unpasteurized honey apply two times per day do not leave any crickets in the tank they will go straight for the eye -- you can use a Q tip to put the honey on --

Honey - Bacteria's Worst Enemy! | Health

Some of you might have seen the suggestion on this site every once in awhile to put some honey on an open sore, or to place it over an infection. This might sound strange, but honey truly is a great anti-bacterial. It can really come in handy in a pinch while you wait for a vet visit, or simply...

www.beardeddragon.org

Here is the response I got from someone that can help

Aw man, that's really too bad when the treatment causes such a reaction that they harm themselves even worse than the initial problem. I had a dragon years ago that scratched his eye like that and was also bloody. I used unpasteurized honey diluted with 3 parts slightly warm water on it [ just to make it slightly more liquid ] Then I used a small gauze patch to cover it and wound a piece of tape around the top of his head all the way around under his chin. I could kick myself for not taking pictures because it was very effective and the wound healed nicely. If you could figure out how to do it that would help. It looked like his eye was O.K and I know you probably wish you hadn't done the last drop that caused him to scratch his eye like that but it does need attention now.

 

[LindaSees]

Please go over the UVB your using --- is it a coil or a tube? Basking bulb what are you using for that? Please no daytime bulbs they have a neoyidium coating on them that causes eye issues also colored bulbs -- you want a solid bright white basking bulb --- example a Exo Terra Intense bulb or a Zoo Med Repti basking bulb -- I have enlisted some help w/ this --

Hi Sadie,

Thank you so much for your reply! Just got home from work. I'm going to try to see if I can figure out how to make that eye treatment....(Also wish there was a photo! ) He's a pretty tame dragon, so I'm sure he'll let me attach something like that. I'll do my best. I guess I'm just so nervous about putting something on his eye that will make it worse. (I just gave him a warm bath to try to sooth the area. He drank a lot of water and did a good poop.) I'll try to dilute the honey a lot.

As for the lighting/substrate, I was able to take these photos just now. Most recent eye situation. As for the setup, I think those are the proper bulbs? I believe they are Zoo Med. I buy them from my local pet shop. As for the substrate, I have a vinyl (I think it's vinyl) kind of tile-looking floor I bought from a Bearded Dragon breeder at the Reptile Expo in New York. I like it because it's easy to clean so everything stays sanitized. I use Natural Chemistry's Healthy Habitat to clean the tank and spot clean after he poops. He has a food dish and a wooden log/tunnel for sleeping. I have an under-tank heating pad under his tunnel.

Thanks again! Any more advice would be appreciated. Let me know about the bulbs and substrate.

-Linda

 

[Sadie]

Hi Sadie,

Thank you so much for your reply! Just got home from work. I'm going to try to see if I can figure out how to make that eye treatment....(Also wish there was a photo! ) He's a pretty tame dragon, so I'm sure he'll let me attach something like that. I'll do my best. I guess I'm just so nervous about putting something on his eye that will make it worse. (I just gave him a warm bath to try to sooth the area. He drank a lot of water and did a good poop.) I'll try to dilute the honey a lot.

As for the lighting/substrate, I was able to take these photos just now. Most recent eye situation. As for the setup, I think those are the proper bulbs? I believe they are Zoo Med. I buy them from my local pet shop. As for the substrate, I have a vinyl (I think it's vinyl) kind of tile-looking floor I bought from a Bearded Dragon breeder at the Reptile Expo in New York. I like it because it's easy to clean so everything stays sanitized. I use Natural Chemistry's Healthy Habitat to clean the tank and spot clean after he poops. He has a food dish and a wooden log/tunnel for sleeping. I have an under-tank heating pad under his tunnel.

Thanks again! Any more advice would be appreciated. Let me know about the bulbs and substrate.

-Linda

Your issue is being caused by the coil bulb -----------------the coil is more than likely the cause for both issues going on --- they are no good and are inadequate for a UVB --
please shut it off and get one of these
24" fixture for a 40+ gallon tank
https://www.pangeareptile.com/colle...o-med-reptisun-t5-hood?variant=26907425734756
w/ this bulb 22" https://www.pangeareptile.com/colle...d-reptisun-10-0-uvb-t5?variant=26907418591332
the Zoo Med comes w/ a 5.0 bulb hang onto it for back up distance and placement is different from the bulb you need / want
or this one https://www.pangeareptile.com/colle.../products/arcadia-prot5-12-uvb-bulb-with-hood
please get this as soon as you can in the meantime keep the coil off
if its warm like 65+ degrees take him out for some good UVB direct sun either on you or in a plastic tote NO glass for at least 15 min or longer do not leave him
when you get the UVB please post back on here so I can help you set it up for your tank placement and distance will determine by your screen
Substrate is good as long as there are no abrasions on the feet / legs - please shut the heat mat off - if you need extra heat in the tank please get a heat emitter that will sit on top of the screen - dragons heat from their backs and heat mats can cause burns you want your ambient temp in the tank 65-75 at nite --
make sure the honey has some strength to it - you want that infection killed and getting the cause shut off is going to help - you should start to notice a difference in a few days

 

[LindaSees]

Your issue is being caused by the coil bulb -----------------the coil is more than likely the cause for both issues going on --- they are no good and are inadequate for a UVB --
please shut it off and get one of these
24" fixture for a 40+ gallon tank
https://www.pangeareptile.com/colle...o-med-reptisun-t5-hood?variant=26907425734756
w/ this bulb 22" https://www.pangeareptile.com/colle...d-reptisun-10-0-uvb-t5?variant=26907418591332
the Zoo Med comes w/ a 5.0 bulb hang onto it for back up distance and placement is different from the bulb you need / want
or this one https://www.pangeareptile.com/colle.../products/arcadia-prot5-12-uvb-bulb-with-hood
please get this as soon as you can in the meantime keep the coil off
if its warm like 65+ degrees take him out for some good UVB direct sun either on you or in a plastic tote NO glass for at least 15 min or longer do not leave him
when you get the UVB please post back on here so I can help you set it up for your tank placement and distance will determine by your screen
Substrate is good as long as there are no abrasions on the feet / legs - please shut the heat mat off - if you need extra heat in the tank please get a heat emitter that will sit on top of the screen - dragons heat from their backs and heat mats can cause burns you want your ambient temp in the tank 65-75 at nite --
make sure the honey has some strength to it - you want that infection killed and getting the cause shut off is going to help - you should start to notice a difference in a few days

Again, thank you for your help. Just an update: I ordered the UVB but it hasn't arrived yet. I tried to do the gauze with honey, but I cannot get it to stay on. The tape didn't hold and he started to scratch at it. He also further damaged his eye. More blood. It's just so hard to watch. I took off the heating pad. I added it after he got the infection to bring the heat up since it says to make the tank warmer.

It's been about 25 degrees here, so no warm days. I'm just waiting for a nice sunny moment to bring him out.

He has one more injection left. He's still having moments of heavy breathing, but he's eating great. Drinking a lot. Pooping well. It's just this eye situation! I am so upset the vet prescribed those eyedrops. Ruined all his progress. Hoping the UVB will help!

 

[Sadie]

Again, thank you for your help. Just an update: I ordered the UVB but it hasn't arrived yet. I tried to do the gauze with honey, but I cannot get it to stay on. The tape didn't hold and he started to scratch at it. He also further damaged his eye. More blood. It's just so hard to watch. I took off the heating pad. I added it after he got the infection to bring the heat up since it says to make the tank warmer.

It's been about 25 degrees here, so no warm days. I'm just waiting for a nice sunny moment to bring him out.

He has one more injection left. He's still having moments of heavy breathing, but he's eating great. Drinking a lot. Pooping well. It's just this eye situation! I am so upset the vet prescribed those eyedrops. Ruined all his progress. Hoping the UVB will help!

Yes that uvb is going to help- do not take him outside if your temps are not 65 or warmer- then you want direct sunlight- if you can't get the guaze to stay then leave it off but keep applying the honey- you can rinse his eye w/ regular saline no contacts lens stuff- then apply the honey - let me know if the breathing gets worse - when you uvb comes in please post back here so I can help you get it set up for your tank- distance and placement will determine by your screen- did you shut the coil off?

 

[LindaSees]

Yes that uvb is going to help- do not take him outside if your temps are not 65 or warmer- then you want direct sunlight- if you can't get the guaze to stay then leave it off but keep applying the honey- you can rinse his eye w/ regular saline no contacts lens stuff- then apply the honey - let me know if the breathing gets worse - when you uvb comes in please post back here so I can help you get it set up for your tank- distance and placement will determine by your screen- did you shut the coil off?

I shut the coil off. I am waiting for the UVB. Should arrive today. (I will post on here when I am installing the new light!) He got his last injection yesterday. Again, doing much better, but that EYE! When I get home from work today, hopefully I can put in the UVB and do a proper eye treatment with the honey. Without the coil bulb on, he's darkened in color. Crossing fingers that the bulb/hood is there when I get back today.

Advice request: Now that the injections are over, the vet wants me to make an appointment. That will be an additional 200 dollars to the 800 dollars I've already spent on emergency room/doctor visits. Should I return to the vet who prescribed those horrible eye drops or should I wait it out and see how it goes with the UVB bulb change? I just am so fearful he will lose his eye, so I don't want to delay seeing a vet. But if this will work, I want to try this free remedy first.

 

[Sadie]

I shut the coil off. I am waiting for the UVB. Should arrive today. (I will post on here when I am installing the new light!) He got his last injection yesterday. Again, doing much better, but that EYE! When I get home from work today, hopefully I can put in the UVB and do a proper eye treatment with the honey. Without the coil bulb on, he's darkened in color. Crossing fingers that the bulb/hood is there when I get back today.

Advice request: Now that the injections are over, the vet wants me to make an appointment. That will be an additional 200 dollars to the 800 dollars I've already spent on emergency room/doctor visits. Should I return to the vet who prescribed those horrible eye drops or should I wait it out and see how it goes with the UVB bulb change? I just am so fearful he will lose his eye, so I don't want to delay seeing a vet. But if this will work, I want to try this free remedy first.

I would not return to that vet --- he should of asked about the lighting in the tank --- I always start there when someone post anything about eye issues -- it is normally a light issue - or substrate issue - you haft to narrow down the cause and bad bulbs are normally the culprit or substrate - please let me know when the UVB comes in - what kind of dark are you talking black or normal color darker- if hes turning black it normally a sign of trying to get warmer they try to abosrb the heat --- make sure your basking temps are good and taken w/a digital probe thermometer - you want actual basking temps- 95-100 --- please start w/ the honey you can mixt it w/ a little water to make it a runnier consistency but you want a good strength of the honey--
if you need to find a vet use this website please
www.arav.org if your in a small town / area type in a bigger cities zip code closest to you
but get started w/ the honey if you have not already
I will help you get the UVB set up for your tank --- the screen on the tank is going to determine where it goes and the distance

 

[LindaSees]

I would not return to that vet --- he should of asked about the lighting in the tank --- I always start there when someone post anything about eye issues -- it is normally a light issue - or substrate issue - you haft to narrow down the cause and bad bulbs are normally the culprit or substrate - please let me know when the UVB comes in - what kind of dark are you talking black or normal color darker- if hes turning black it normally a sign of trying to get warmer they try to abosrb the heat --- make sure your basking temps are good and taken w/a digital probe thermometer - you want actual basking temps- 95-100 --- please start w/ the honey you can mixt it w/ a little water to make it a runnier consistency but you want a good strength of the honey--
if you need to find a vet use this website please
www.arav.org if your in a small town / area type in a bigger cities zip code closest to you
but get started w/ the honey if you have not already
I will help you get the UVB set up for your tank --- the screen on the tank is going to determine where it goes and the distance

The second vet didn't ask a single thing about the UVB. The emergency room the first time, they asked about my setup. I said I had a heat and UVB light. But they didn't ask about what kind of UVB or anything.

Both the emergency room and the second herp vet just said the eye issue was related to the upper respiratory infection and that was it. They said it would take time for the injections to take affect. I live just outside of New York City and there are plenty of herp vets, the issue is, most of them are not seeing new patients and have a 3-4 week wait time. The emergency room near me was good in providing immediate help and injections. The herp and avian specialist that is down in Southern New Jersey didn't help much. But they had only a three day wait for an appointment.

Again, I appreciate this advice so much. Thank you, thank you. In 9 years, he's never been sick. And I never questioned the lighting I've had all this time. I thought everything was proper, especially considering I buy my bulbs at the pet store. With a photo of a bearded dragon on the bulb, I wonder why in the world they would even sell these bulbs in the first place. Really upsetting, especially when you believe you're doing everything right.

 

[Sadie]

The second vet didn't ask a single thing about the UVB. The emergency room the first time, they asked about my setup. I said I had a heat and UVB light. But they didn't ask about what kind of UVB or anything.

Both the emergency room and the second herp vet just said the eye issue was related to the upper respiratory infection and that was it. They said it would take time for the injections to take affect. I live just outside of New York City and there are plenty of herp vets, the issue is, most of them are not seeing new patients and have a 3-4 week wait time. The emergency room near me was good in providing immediate help and injections. The herp and avian specialist that is down in Southern New Jersey didn't help much. But they had only a three day wait for an appointment.

Again, I appreciate this advice so much. Thank you, thank you. In 9 years, he's never been sick. And I never questioned the lighting I've had all this time. I thought everything was proper, especially considering I buy my bulbs at the pet store. With a photo of a bearded dragon on the bulb, I wonder why in the world they would even sell these bulbs in the first place. Really upsetting, especially when you believe you're doing everything right.

The coil bulbs are a death trap to dragons and should be banned from being made and sold -- pet store people are the worst to get advice from as most of them know nothing about the care to the dragon -- it is up to you if you want him to see another vet you can schedule an appt for now then if things are looking good then you can always cancel - you may need another antibiotic to work on the eye but for now the UVB and the honey may take care of the issue -- how long is he staying dark for?

 

[LindaSees]

The coil bulbs are a death trap to dragons and should be banned from being made and sold -- pet store people are the worst to get advice from as most of them know nothing about the care to the dragon -- it is up to you if you want him to see another vet you can schedule an appt for now then if things are looking good then you can always cancel - you may need another antibiotic to work on the eye but for now the UVB and the honey may take care of the issue -- how long is he staying dark for?

He started being dark when I turned the UVB off. So a couple of days. But hopefully I'll have the new bulb today when I arrive back at home!

 

[Sadie]

He started being dark when I turned the UVB off. So a couple of days. But hopefully I'll have the new bulb today when I arrive back at home!

Ok keep me posted -- are your temps good ?

 

[LindaSees]

Ok keep me posted -- are your temps good ?

Temps are good! Colder end of the tank is 75 where the hot end is at 92. I tried to warm that up with the under tank heat pad, but I took that out.

I just gave him a bath. (The vet had said to give him a bath every 48 hours.) I added a Bearded Dragon electrolytes and probiotics mix. He drank a bunch of water and then took a very healthy-looking poop while in the bath. He's colored up now and under his heat lamp basking. His eye looks horrific. But other than that, he's acting normal. Just has to take a very large breath every once in a while.

 

[LindaSees]

Ok keep me posted -- are your temps good ?

And! Got the bulb and hood. Very small for the 40 gallon, but I just pushed the screen back and latched it on. What do I need to know for the new hood?

 

[Sadie]

And! Got the bulb and hood. Very small for the 40 gallon, but I just pushed the screen back and latched it on. What do I need to know for the new hood?

What did you get ? Please post a pic of the hood -- is it a 24" hood?

 

[Sadie]

The bulb needs to be in the hood and depending on the screen will determine if it can go on top or inside the tank--

 

[LindaSees]

What did you get ? Please post a pic of the hood -- is it a 24" hood?

I got the 20" cause it's all they had. Here are some photos and an update of his eyes. I WILL TELL YOU, he hasn't scratched his eye since I turned the UVB off!

 

[Sadie]

I got the 20" cause it's all they had. Here are some photos and an update of his eyes. I WILL TELL YOU, he hasn't scratched his eye since I turned the UVB off!

Ok so please take the T 8 and either get it unobstructed no screen or take it place it in the tank you can use this to do that https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-15-ft-Cable-Ties-Hook-and-Loop-Spool-Black-10375/304220195
this is like a Velcro strap cut into strips and wrap around your fixture -- get the UVB adjusted first then take a piece of basking decor and place it directly under it 6-8 inches -- your dragons eye looks better already --- are you using the honey ? the swelling around the eye looks like its going down -- please watch his behavior after getting this set up and let me know its going -- the honey is going to kill any infection if there is one --