Ugh Loki might be sick again? Opinions please D':

[valkryja]

Hey everyone, I know it's been a while, but that was because Loki was doing well and I had no questions. But now I do.

Today I came home from work and found Loki sitting in his basking spot, with regurgitated crickets all over his viv. He was very dark colored with an exceptionally dark beard and tail tip, his body was cold despite sitting in the basking spot, and his hind leg muscles were shaking VERY slightly. It was barely noticeable, but I was afraid that it might be metabolic bone disease (despite him getting proper calcium supplements and eating lots of collard greens) so I'm worried now. I immediately took him out and put him in a bath to soak and warm up, and he drank a little bit of water. Then I gave him 0.04 mL of liquid Calcium Glubionate via syringe to the mouth, since I still had some left over from when the vet looked at him last.

I should probably note that he ate a LOT of crickets this morning, more than he usually does in 15 minutes. Like at least 60 of them, and he gobbled them up so fast it was crazy. I don't know if he just ate more than his body could handle and had to throw a lot of them up, but there are dead crickets all over the cage now.

Also, he just tried to poop in the water, but all that came out was some of the white stuff at the tip of the poop, not the feces itself. The white stuff also didn't have a shape to it, and was just watery. I don't think he's impacted because his body is very flat and there aren't any noticeable lumps on his back or stomach, and there's a poop in his tank right now that he must have passed some time today... maybe he threw up all the crickets and didn't have anything to poop out, but still had the white stuff to get rid of? I don't know...

His UV bulb is a 36" Reptisun 10.0, and it IS a bit old (about 6 months), but he also gets regular unfiltered sunshine when I take him outside (it's pretty adorable, I read a book and he sits on my shoulder with his mouth open) and I'm replacing the bulb when I get my paycheck on Friday. Temps are fine, viv is 40 gallon breeder. Everything SHOULD be okay but he's always been a little bit difficult. He's about 15 inches long right now, but a while back he got a tail injury from some nasty crickets and lost about an inch of tail, so he theoretically should be longer than that. He's about five months old right now and very active. He also has nice squishy fat pads on his tail / limbs / head, and really looks like he should be in fine condition.

He just got bored with bath time and jumped out of his water tub, and now he's walking around my bed and acting just fine. The tip of the tail and his beard are now still a little dark, but the tail is flexible and doesn't have a mottled coloration so I think the color is from him being in a bad mood and I don't have to worry about tail rot or anything.

So now I ask you - what happened? Did he throw up his crickets because he was greedy, or do I have to call the vet again? The muscle twitches stopped and it was just from when he was shivering his his viv surrounded by cricket vomit. Either way I'm going to get him a better UV bulb and make sure he gets lots of sunshine and exercise. Also I think I'm going to give him regular doses of the liquid calcium and give him more calcium-enriched greens and less crickets until this whole thing clears up.

Does this sound good? I worry about the little guy.

 

[crypticdragons]

Well what time did you feed him? How long was it after his lights were on? They can just regurg and it not be due to them being ill. Sometimes the eat too fast, sometimes they do not properly digest due to not basking long enough. Id watch it with the liquid calcium though you do not want to over do it (mainly if you are dusting his feeders also than I would not suggest the liquid calcium). What is the basking temp at?

Now you are saying he might be sick again? What was wrong before? Was there some type of parasite problem? And if so what did the vet treat him with? Did you use any type of post treatment to help his system normalize? They have a certain level of parasite that they need in their digestive system to help them breakdown food and the medicine that vets typically use kill both the "beneficially" parasites and the problem ones.

 

[ladyknite]

ya know that little flipper thing in the backs of our throats that keeps our food from coming back up EVERY time we swallow? It's what allows us to regurgitate without trauma and little concern for aspiration (unless we are unconscious or in some other inhibited state)

Dragons don't have a flipper.

I was afraid that it might be metabolic bone disease

Nope, things don't happen that drastically or suddenly. It would start say with a toe. Not his legs. He wouldn't have thrown up that early in the game. No worries.

Also, he just tried to poop in the water, but all that came out was some of the white stuff at the tip of the poop, not the feces itself. The white stuff also didn't have a shape to it, and was just watery. I don't think he's impacted because his body is very flat and there aren't any noticeable lumps on his back or stomach, and there's a poop in his tank right now that he must have passed some time today... maybe he threw up all the crickets and didn't have anything to poop out, but still had the white stuff to get rid of? I don't know...

How long since you've had a fecal? How often does he normally go poop?

Based on everything else you've said, it sounded like he was a bit greedy, took in too much air as he was eating, and up it came. When it does that, it's very physically traumatic for them. But he should be fine as long as he didn't aspirate. Make sure he has plenty of access to fresh water for a couple of days, slow him down on the amount of crickets he can gobble in 5 minutes and replace your bulb

 

[valkryja]

Thanks for the responses, guys. They really made me feel better. Speaking of feeling better, Loki's back to his bright and colorful self today. I really think the crickets just didn't agree with him for some reason yesterday, and I'm so relieved that he's back to normal. But just to be on the safe side, I'll answer your questions

Answers for crypticdragons:
I fed him at 10 am yesterday, and the lights were on for about an hour. Like I said he ate very quickly and ate a whole lot. Basking temp's at 108 degrees right now. When he was sick before, it was because of a minor infection due to cricket bites that made him lose part of his tail. No parasites or anything, and the vet gave him Baytril as an antibiotic. I only gave this to him for a week, since his tail recovered quickly, so the vet said he didn't need any kind of post treatment since there was virtually no risk for fungus or anything. After that he was back to normal for quite a while so I don't think it was any kind of leftover problem. But while I was there, the vet squeezed his jaw a bit and said it was slightly mushy, which is why he said to replace the calcium carbonate powder I bought at the petshop with the liquid calcium glubionate for a while.

Answers for ladyknight:
That actually makes a lot of sense! Poor lil Loki, he didn't have a flipper to help him throw up. It makes sense that he'd be pretty traumatized for a while. And yeah, I never noticed any shaking of a toe, or anything before this. I guess I was just extra perceptive since the poor guy was sick. As far as I know, Loki's never had a fecal. I asked the vet about this when I took him, and he said that he didn't think Loki needed one since his stool looked fine and he really doubted there was a parasite problem, since I got him from a breeder who never had parasites in any of her dragons only about a month before. He normally poops once a day. And yup, i'm going to replace that bulb asap and slow down with the crickets. ;D

Thanks again!