Read if youre using HORNWORMS

[Pogie]

I came across this thread on another forum
http://www.beardeddragon.org/bjive/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=130571

Dont know how true it is, but thought Id let you guys know.
I dont feed them, cos we dont get them here LOL, so what else is new, we dont get ANYTHING here

 

[beardielover17]

While I can't say this is entirely false, I do think this may have been a freak thing. From my understanding too, the person who's dragons died were never tested on the bacteria found and if it was actually linked to the worms. Crickets and pretty much any other feeder has the potential to carry some really nasty stuff but our guys gotta eat. Also, if it was the food getting moldy and icky, then it's partially the person's fault for not checking it. I just ordered hornworms and silkworms from coastal and my guys aren't dead (bugs and lizards) and nothing looks amiss.

 

[pscaulkins]

There is risk in any feeder. But I do know silkworms and hornworms can carry bad bacteria in their guts and DO NOT die until they are sepsis and sometimes they never get sepsis but still have enough bad bacteria to make a dragon ill. One should never use them as sole feeders. Giving a mix of different kinds (crickets, supers, roaches with the silkies and horns) to keep the loose stools from happening.

 

[ladyknite]

From my understanding too, the person who's dragons died were never tested on the bacteria found and if it was actually linked to the worms.

Odd ain't it?

 

[beardielover17]

There is risk in any feeder. But I do know silkworms and hornworms can carry bad bacteria in their guts and DO NOT die until they are sepsis and sometimes they never get sepsis but still have enough bad bacteria to make a dragon ill. One should never use them as sole feeders. Giving a mix of different kinds (crickets, supers, roaches with the silkies and horns) to keep the loose stools from happening.

I have used silks as a sole feeder for over 3 years with no issues. I'm not saying there isn't a chance of them carrying something but honestly crickets can make a dragon ill too. I almost lost a dragon from crickets and a very bad batch at that. This was a couple years ago and yes he was tested as were my feeders and it was the crickets.

Odd ain't it?

Especially since the person who posted that is known for lies and stretching the truth and being an all around person you would not take seriously

 

[ladyknite]

Sandy is correct about the bacteria. But i believe it affects dragons with already compromised immune systems. Similar to the bad batch of crickets you got, they can be bad too. Some of that comes from their food, some comes from the virus that may be integrated into their system. Where you obviously noted a problem, someone else did not. How often do you see dragons die suddenly?

I find it kind of odd that someone would make that assumption without a necropy to prove their point. I'm not saying it didn't happen, only that validation of the contents would be nice.

 

[beardielover17]

I agree Gina. Like I said, I don't doubt that they can have the bacteria but in this case I really can't believe the OP in the original thread for a number of reasons.

 

[pscaulkins]

Sandy is correct about the bacteria. But i believe it affects dragons with already compromised immune systems.

I find it kind of odd that someone would make that assumption without a necropsy to prove their point. I'm not saying it didn't happen, only that validation of the contents would be nice.

It is a fact that silkies can carry bad bacteria without showing symptoms because over 5 years ago, juvies were dropping dead and their owners did have autopsies done and it was a bad bacteria. Those dragons ate silkies exclusively. This happened right before the silkie virus came into the US. Then again, if you live in a state that sprays for the gypsy moth, which btw is the silkie virus, you have a 99% chance of contamination to them. My state uses the virus every year. When I was raising and selling silkies I had multiple vets wanting to culture them because they had proof they carried bad bacteria but when they told the people bringing their dragons in with bacterial issues and using silkies exclusively, those people would not believe the vets. Now horns are made up about like silkies. I personally have seen sick horns a couple of times so I just tossed them. I also have seen sick hornworms in a mom and pop petstore and told the owner to toss them.

The person that posted that thread did nothing. You can't accuse something unless you have proof. I think a couple of years ago a breeder stated the same thing. That breeder lost a few of his top breeders if my memory serves me correct but they did not culture anything either. These people need to test before warning people. One test would go a long way.

I think all dragons could succumb to bad bacteria if not treated quickly.

 

[beardielover17]

I did not accuse the OP of that original thread of anything so I do not need proof for an accusation I did not make. I personally take what they say with a grain of salt based on their actions in the past and the fact they have a reputation that follows them that isn't favorable. You are right, that one test could go a long way but the person's friend did not have it done and they went and posted the blame on horns without knowing

 

[Craiger]

I did not accuse the OP of that original thread of anything so I do not need proof for an accusation I did not make. I personally take what they say with a grain of salt based on their actions in the past and the fact they have a reputation that follows them that isn't favorable. You are right, that one test could go a long way but the person's friend did not have it done and they went and posted the blame on horns without knowing

Candice....I'm going to play mediator, here. I don't feel Sandy was talking about you accusing anyone. I honestly believe she was talking about the OP in the thread linked to that other forum. Basically, they "accused" the hornworms for killing the beardie without any testing to back up their claim. And without that testing, they can't honestly "accuse" the hornworms for the death (which is exactly what you're saying as well). It very well could have been the owner's neglect.

Seriously, I think you and Sandy are on the exact same page.

 

[beardielover17]

Ah ok. I hope my message wasn't taken on a mean note. That's the problem with the written word unfortunately, you never can tell =\. Sandy I hope you didn't take it offensively. I also must've misunderstood Sandy's post as well. *hugs*

 

[Craiger]

Ah ok. I hope my message wasn't taken on a mean note. That's the problem with the written word unfortunately, you never can tell =\. Sandy I hope you didn't take it offensively. I also must've misunderstood Sandy's post as well. *hugs*

Awesome!

 

[Pogie]

Geeez, now Ive gone and done it...... *bites nails anxiously*

Stirred up the proverbial hornets nest.
I didn't mean to get you guys fighting, like I said, we don't get horn worms here, and Ive read some threads where some of you mentioned you're using them, so I just wanted to give you all a heads up . . . so to speak.

SORRY

 

[beardielover17]

No reason to apologize Monique. I'd hardly call this thread a fight. Misunderstanding of posts though, yes lol You had good intentions and brought up a discussion which is what a forum and thread are for

 

[Craiger]

No reason to apologize Monique. I'd hardly call this thread a fight. Misunderstanding of posts though, yes lol You had good intentions and brought up a discussion which is what a forum and thread are for

Totally agree!

 

[ladyknite]

Ironic how one person's statement on a forum in a far off galaxy can have such an impact here in our little world. ;D

This is how rhetoric gets going.

 

[beardielover17]

So true

 

[pscaulkins]

Wow, first off, I apologize to Candice if I sounded rude. Truely, I was not aiming anything at anyone. Thank you Craig. You were right that I am on ths same page as Candice. I, for one take a lot I hear and read on forums with a grain of salt unless I have experienced it myself.

Monique, don't be sorry for posting the link.

 

[ladyknite]

You guys are too funny

 

[beardielover17]

Wow, first off, I apologize to Candice if I sounded rude. Truely, I was not aiming anything at anyone. Thank you Craig. You were right that I am on ths same page as Candice. I, for one take a lot I hear and read on forums with a grain of salt unless I have experienced it myself.

Monique, don't be sorry for posting the link.

No need to apologize really. I think the whole thing was miscommunication + not being able to hear a person's tone through words.