olaalo2024
Bearded Dragon Egg
- Messages
- 4
My bearded dragon is 12 years old. He has never had a health issue his whole life, but about a month ago I noticed him pretty regularly taking deep breaths more often. His face was shedding at the time, and I thought maybe his nostril plugs were just stuck and giving him a hard time, but after a couple days, I saw them shed and he was still having the breathing problem so I called the vet.
For reference, the breathing would be heavy enough that I saw his body contract and expand, sometimes his beard would puff up, sometimes he would open his mouth. I know that this all can be normal behavior in some cases (after eating, basking, etc.) but it seemed like it was happening at inappropriate times too, like when he would be going to sleep. He never had any other respiratory symptoms though, like the discharge or crackling or anything. Just the breathing. That is still his only symptom. It isn’t constant, he can go an hour with out doing it, then breathe heavily a few times, then go back to breathing normally. I would say it has increased in frequency though, where in the beginning I was only noticing it a couple times a day, when now it’s far more often, though still not constant. Also maybe worth nothing that when his nose shed that first time, only his face shedded, and now, his face is shedding again, though still nothing on the rest of his body. His beard is a little dark right now but I associated that with the shedding of his face which is really irritating him.
At his appointment, they said that he looked great for his age and seemed relatively healthy, gave me a couple husbandry tips, then listened to his lungs. She said he did have harsh lung sounds so they did an x-ray to check for respiratory problems, but they said the x-rays looked good. (I have a copy if it would be helpful to post.)
She said when he finally opened his mouth for her that she saw an abscess in the roof of his mouth that was likely causing swelling that was constricting his airways. One of his nostrils seemed “swollen shut” (I didn’t know at the time, but after doing some google searches after I watched his nostril open and close right in front of my eyes, I found out that they just have the ability to close their nostrils to help block out sand and water. It concerns me now that she didn’t seem to know that.) I couldn’t really see the abscess in his mouth because he was tired of having his mouth forced open but she told me to try to keep an eye on it. He got a vitamin shot and some antibiotics and we were on our way. She told me if his breathing didn’t improve by the end of the antibiotics to schedule a follow up. They also gave me critical care and told me to feed it to him if he was eating less than half of what he normally eats, but thankfully I barely had to use it. (Thankfully because he HATED it.) For what it’s worth, every time he would gape I would try to look in his mouth to monitor the abscess, but I couldn’t find it, so it was hard to monitor. I’m not saying there wasn’t one, but I guess I’m just not familiar enough with what it would look like and after google image searching the inside of a healthy mouth, I still didn’t see anything abnormal.
He improved drastically in every way except for the actual breathing problem. He was eating great, super active and alert, pooping regularly, and seemed more lively than I’ve honestly seen him in a very long time, which surprised me because I was told that he might not act like himself on the antibiotics. I was super hopeful, but his breathing never really improved, which obviously was the main concern.
His three week course of antibiotics came to an end, and even though he seemed to be feeling better, the heavy breathing persisted so I called the vet the next day after his last antibiotic shot for a follow up visit.
This time, which was about six days after his last antibiotic shot, the vet said to me that the swelling went down a lot which was good, and that’s “probably why he was breathing so much better” (I actually mentioned that his breathing hadn’t seemed to improve, so I’m not sure if she was saying she thought it did? To me, it seemed no different) but that now she could see into the back of his throat, she saw a mass that was likely a tumor.
She told me that there were specialists I could go to, but that she didn’t recommend it or even know if it was removable and that the outlook probably wouldn’t be good and it wasn’t worth putting him through the stress at his age. I completely understood her reasoning even though I was really unprepared for that news. She said that it would only be a matter of time before it caught up to him and that it wasn’t going to go away; this would be the cause of his death. I did not want to put him through any suffering at all and asked her what she recommended I do. She said that he likely was feeling some discomfort, but that she wouldn’t necessarily recommend putting him down that day, but that it was something I needed to start thinking about. She gave him more antibiotics and anti inflammatory meds for the pain but said if it seemed like he stopped eating and was losing weight, that would be when I needed to make the hard decision.
I brought him home and started up the antibiotics again, and he honestly is like his young spritely self again, except for the breathing. If it weren’t for that, I would never believe this lizard was in poor health. His appetite is back like never before. He’s actively climbing, exploring, wanting to interact with me, going for soaks in his water bowl, just being a regular lil dude.
I know that this is likely just me being reluctant to accept that there’s nothing I can do and just have to try to make his last little while as comfortable as possible (which I of course have been doing), but I’m just really wondering if there’s a chance this might be something else. If there’s something I can do. I’m not super confident in her familiarity with the anatomy of a bearded dragon given that she didn’t know that they could close their nostrils and told me an abscess was causing them to swell shut when in that situation, I don’t believe to have been the case. (Not saying there wasn’t an abscess even though I didn’t see it, but I just don’t think it had anything to do with his nostril being closed. I see him open and close them all the time now that I’ve started paying attention to them more.) I mostly say this because, why would he still be having trouble breathing if the abscess was what was causing his heavy breathing, and the abscess had gone down and his nostrils were open again? Is the mass in his throat causing the heavy breathing? Is that what was causing it the whole time? And if that’s the case, why does he breathe fine with his mouth open or gaping, but not when it’s closed? It seems to me that the problems seems to be in his sinuses/nose area?
When he opens his mouth, I can kind of see what I guess *could* look like a mass, but it could also just be his throat/back of his tongue? I can’t really find any pictures of the back of a normal bearded dragon throat in enough detail, and I honestly have never inspected the inside of his throat behind the flaps closely enough to know what looks normal and what doesn’t, but if she didn’t tell me there was a mass there, I would not be able to tell or find anything that looks necessarily concerning? I guess my main question here is: Is there anything besides respiratory problems or some kind of growth in the throat that might cause this heavy breathing? I know that’s probably impossible for anyone to say, and I wish I could take a picture of his throat but I keep trying and you really can’t see anything at all in photos.
I want to be clear that I am not just trying to put down or discredit the vet here. It would be absolutely naive of me to think that I know better than someone who’s entire life is dedicated to studying these things. I think it’s just a combination of maybe me not asking enough questions, them not really getting him to sit still long enough for me to be super confident that what they saw was absolute, being an emotional mess after hearing the word tumor and talking about euthanasia, and his demeanor just completely not being that of an animal who is dying of a tumor.
I just want to make sure that if there is any chance that this is something that he can bounce back from, that I am giving him every fighting chance. I know 12 isn’t necessarily young, but it’s also not insanely old, especially when he seems to be otherwise healthy. I also understand that there is a 95% chance that he is reaching the end of his life and I am absolutely working on coming to terms with it. Just wanted to hear some other thoughts and experiences.
There is one other exotic vet that isn’t too far from me, and I am considering getting a second opinion, but the vet seems to really stress him out and again, if Im just being unreasonable and in denial, I don’t want to put him through any unnecessary stress and I just want him to live out his final days with ease and comfort.
Sorry for the length, thanks for reading.
For reference, the breathing would be heavy enough that I saw his body contract and expand, sometimes his beard would puff up, sometimes he would open his mouth. I know that this all can be normal behavior in some cases (after eating, basking, etc.) but it seemed like it was happening at inappropriate times too, like when he would be going to sleep. He never had any other respiratory symptoms though, like the discharge or crackling or anything. Just the breathing. That is still his only symptom. It isn’t constant, he can go an hour with out doing it, then breathe heavily a few times, then go back to breathing normally. I would say it has increased in frequency though, where in the beginning I was only noticing it a couple times a day, when now it’s far more often, though still not constant. Also maybe worth nothing that when his nose shed that first time, only his face shedded, and now, his face is shedding again, though still nothing on the rest of his body. His beard is a little dark right now but I associated that with the shedding of his face which is really irritating him.
At his appointment, they said that he looked great for his age and seemed relatively healthy, gave me a couple husbandry tips, then listened to his lungs. She said he did have harsh lung sounds so they did an x-ray to check for respiratory problems, but they said the x-rays looked good. (I have a copy if it would be helpful to post.)
She said when he finally opened his mouth for her that she saw an abscess in the roof of his mouth that was likely causing swelling that was constricting his airways. One of his nostrils seemed “swollen shut” (I didn’t know at the time, but after doing some google searches after I watched his nostril open and close right in front of my eyes, I found out that they just have the ability to close their nostrils to help block out sand and water. It concerns me now that she didn’t seem to know that.) I couldn’t really see the abscess in his mouth because he was tired of having his mouth forced open but she told me to try to keep an eye on it. He got a vitamin shot and some antibiotics and we were on our way. She told me if his breathing didn’t improve by the end of the antibiotics to schedule a follow up. They also gave me critical care and told me to feed it to him if he was eating less than half of what he normally eats, but thankfully I barely had to use it. (Thankfully because he HATED it.) For what it’s worth, every time he would gape I would try to look in his mouth to monitor the abscess, but I couldn’t find it, so it was hard to monitor. I’m not saying there wasn’t one, but I guess I’m just not familiar enough with what it would look like and after google image searching the inside of a healthy mouth, I still didn’t see anything abnormal.
He improved drastically in every way except for the actual breathing problem. He was eating great, super active and alert, pooping regularly, and seemed more lively than I’ve honestly seen him in a very long time, which surprised me because I was told that he might not act like himself on the antibiotics. I was super hopeful, but his breathing never really improved, which obviously was the main concern.
His three week course of antibiotics came to an end, and even though he seemed to be feeling better, the heavy breathing persisted so I called the vet the next day after his last antibiotic shot for a follow up visit.
This time, which was about six days after his last antibiotic shot, the vet said to me that the swelling went down a lot which was good, and that’s “probably why he was breathing so much better” (I actually mentioned that his breathing hadn’t seemed to improve, so I’m not sure if she was saying she thought it did? To me, it seemed no different) but that now she could see into the back of his throat, she saw a mass that was likely a tumor.
She told me that there were specialists I could go to, but that she didn’t recommend it or even know if it was removable and that the outlook probably wouldn’t be good and it wasn’t worth putting him through the stress at his age. I completely understood her reasoning even though I was really unprepared for that news. She said that it would only be a matter of time before it caught up to him and that it wasn’t going to go away; this would be the cause of his death. I did not want to put him through any suffering at all and asked her what she recommended I do. She said that he likely was feeling some discomfort, but that she wouldn’t necessarily recommend putting him down that day, but that it was something I needed to start thinking about. She gave him more antibiotics and anti inflammatory meds for the pain but said if it seemed like he stopped eating and was losing weight, that would be when I needed to make the hard decision.
I brought him home and started up the antibiotics again, and he honestly is like his young spritely self again, except for the breathing. If it weren’t for that, I would never believe this lizard was in poor health. His appetite is back like never before. He’s actively climbing, exploring, wanting to interact with me, going for soaks in his water bowl, just being a regular lil dude.
I know that this is likely just me being reluctant to accept that there’s nothing I can do and just have to try to make his last little while as comfortable as possible (which I of course have been doing), but I’m just really wondering if there’s a chance this might be something else. If there’s something I can do. I’m not super confident in her familiarity with the anatomy of a bearded dragon given that she didn’t know that they could close their nostrils and told me an abscess was causing them to swell shut when in that situation, I don’t believe to have been the case. (Not saying there wasn’t an abscess even though I didn’t see it, but I just don’t think it had anything to do with his nostril being closed. I see him open and close them all the time now that I’ve started paying attention to them more.) I mostly say this because, why would he still be having trouble breathing if the abscess was what was causing his heavy breathing, and the abscess had gone down and his nostrils were open again? Is the mass in his throat causing the heavy breathing? Is that what was causing it the whole time? And if that’s the case, why does he breathe fine with his mouth open or gaping, but not when it’s closed? It seems to me that the problems seems to be in his sinuses/nose area?
When he opens his mouth, I can kind of see what I guess *could* look like a mass, but it could also just be his throat/back of his tongue? I can’t really find any pictures of the back of a normal bearded dragon throat in enough detail, and I honestly have never inspected the inside of his throat behind the flaps closely enough to know what looks normal and what doesn’t, but if she didn’t tell me there was a mass there, I would not be able to tell or find anything that looks necessarily concerning? I guess my main question here is: Is there anything besides respiratory problems or some kind of growth in the throat that might cause this heavy breathing? I know that’s probably impossible for anyone to say, and I wish I could take a picture of his throat but I keep trying and you really can’t see anything at all in photos.
I want to be clear that I am not just trying to put down or discredit the vet here. It would be absolutely naive of me to think that I know better than someone who’s entire life is dedicated to studying these things. I think it’s just a combination of maybe me not asking enough questions, them not really getting him to sit still long enough for me to be super confident that what they saw was absolute, being an emotional mess after hearing the word tumor and talking about euthanasia, and his demeanor just completely not being that of an animal who is dying of a tumor.
I just want to make sure that if there is any chance that this is something that he can bounce back from, that I am giving him every fighting chance. I know 12 isn’t necessarily young, but it’s also not insanely old, especially when he seems to be otherwise healthy. I also understand that there is a 95% chance that he is reaching the end of his life and I am absolutely working on coming to terms with it. Just wanted to hear some other thoughts and experiences.
There is one other exotic vet that isn’t too far from me, and I am considering getting a second opinion, but the vet seems to really stress him out and again, if Im just being unreasonable and in denial, I don’t want to put him through any unnecessary stress and I just want him to live out his final days with ease and comfort.
Sorry for the length, thanks for reading.
