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Providing Variety

Toasty

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
18
So while I've always been very interested in researching as much as possible about the dietary needs of any animals I have had in my care, over the past couple of years I've started to feel more and more strongly that when trying to provide the best possible captive diet for herps in particular, that providing not only appropriate foods, but making a concerted effort to provide a very wide variety appropriate foods is also necessary for a truly optimal diet.

While I am trying to apply this concept to all the diets of all my pets, lately I've been considering the best way to achieve this in the current and future diet plans of my new baby beardie. He/she (I've this little booger for about 3 weeks now and I still can't decide on a name--I feel like such a horrible beardie mama!) is currently about 6-7 weeks old so while greens will be offered, right now we're looking at a diet mainly consisting of live invertebrate prey. I currently have two feeder roach colonies--a Lobster roach colony that is breeding out of control lol and my Dubia colony that I've had for a while but made the mistake of feeding out of before giving it time to really get established (several times :/--oops) so I'm trying to give it some time to get going again although as long as I only feed sparingly from it from now it should be fine. So I currently have 2 different species of roaches readily available. I also decided to try my hand at starting a small mealworm colony since they're supposed to be extremely easy. These would be used very sparingly with my beardie, and only when older just to be on the safe side. While I have no desire to breed my own crix, I would like to have them available to rotate in regulary with the roaches. I'm thinking of ordering them once a month online, enough to make up a decent part of the live prey part of the diet but only as many as I can expect to keep alive long enough to feed most of them before they croak. Also considering adding starting a feeder colony of one more roach species down the line--I'd like to try my hand at P. nivea (Green Banana Roach) or maybe discoids. While I don't want to use any of the feeder worms as one my "staples", I think they definitely would be useful in small amounts as another way of providing more variety. It will be a while before my little one is really ready for the larger worms, Reptiworms/Pheonix/Calci-worms are small enough to start using now and being soft-bodied don't pose the impaction risk of some of the larger worms.

So I already have the dubia and lobster colonies going, some small waxworms in my fridge to be used sparingly as treats, am hoping the mealworm colony starts producing, and then I'll be ordering appropriately sized small crickets this week also--well, that might have to wait a bit due to stupid high temps here right now that sadly probably won't be improving any for a a couple of months at least. Maybe I can find a local cricket breeder to purchase from in the meantime as well as someone local I might be able to get some Calci/Phoenix worms from.

So my staple feeders would be the dubias, lobsters, and crickets, with the waxworms, mealworms, and BSF larvae offered sparingly to provide even more variety. Once my beardie is large enough for them to be safe to feed, I can also rotate in supers, hornworms, and silkies along with the other worms. With the plan to start colonies of at least one (hopefully 2) more species of feeder roaches also to rotate in as staples that would give me 5 different "staple" insects and possibly 6 different types of feeder worms to be used in careful moderation as treats and to add yet more variety.

If anyone else has tried (or is currently doing) something similar to this I would love to hear from you! Would also appreciate any ideas, suggestions, input, etc. from all the other keepers on here regarding this plan.

And yes, I plan on providing as much variety as possible with the greens and veggies that will be making up more and more of the diet very quickly. I won't get into all that right now though ;)
 

Pat B

Super Moderator
Messages
1,469
Location
Columbia SC
I just wish my stubborn little Spike, that has a huge attitude, would eat his greens. He is about 6 months and has absolutely no interest whatsoever in greens but I offer them everyday!! Maybe someday?? :D
 

Toasty

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
18
I just wish my stubborn little Spike, that has a huge attitude, would eat his greens. He is about 6 months and has absolutely no interest whatsoever in greens but I offer them everyday!! Maybe someday?? :D

I'm already offering a small amount of several of the leafy greens I plan to include as staples in the veg part of his diet and tiny chopped up bits of some of the staple veggies I know I want to use to him each day. Being maybe 7 weeks old he shows absolutely no interest in them but I figure its never too early to introduce them. I am currently "fostering" a 1-yr old female iguana (prettty sure she's going to end up as a "permanent foster", we all know how that goes lol) and the greens and veggies that I'm using as staples in her diet are pretty much exactly the same ones I'll be using as staples for my little guy, so already having them on hand makes it easy to just pull out a tiny bit extra as i'm preparing her morning meal and chop it all up very fine, throw it in a little bowl, and give some to my beardie baby.

What greens have you offered Spike so far? How did you prepare them? Six months is still quite young, many beardies don't start to show in interest in greens and veggies until after this age, so definitely don't get too discouraged! If nothing else, these little babies definitely help us learn patience!
 

Pat B

Super Moderator
Messages
1,469
Location
Columbia SC
I have given Spike all kinds of greens, vegetables, fruits etc. I give him tiny pieces in a small bowl I do this every dang day!! and he snubs his nose every dang day!! What to do?? I don't know whether to hold off on the crix/mealies and give him some 'tough love' or is he still to young?? I will continue to give him greens and maybe someday, just maybe, he will know that he needs to eat greens to stay healthy!!
 

slices mommy

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
170
Mine was the same way he wouldn't touch his greens at all. Then I watched him try to eat calcium powder off his carpet like it was the greatest thing he'd ever ate. So I started putting some on his greens then I watched him devour his greens. I try to keep switching it up to keep him interested. I actually found endive at my grocery store which he loves...I have no clue what it is or how it tastes but he loves it. I spend so much time in the produce section buying things i've never heard of.
 

Toasty

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
18
I have given Spike all kinds of greens, vegetables, fruits etc. I give him tiny pieces in a small bowl I do this every dang day!! and he snubs his nose every dang day!! What to do?? I don't know whether to hold off on the crix/mealies and give him some 'tough love' or is he still to young?? I will continue to give him greens and maybe someday, just maybe, he will know that he needs to eat greens to stay healthy!!

What specific greens, veggies, and fruits have you tried so far? What is his feeding schedule like?
 

Pat B

Super Moderator
Messages
1,469
Location
Columbia SC
What specific greens, veggies, and fruits have you tried so far? What is his feeding schedule like?
kale, turnip greens, oranges, green beans, melon, strawberries, watermelon that I can remember. He eats at 8 am and 5 pm.
 

Pat B

Super Moderator
Messages
1,469
Location
Columbia SC
Mine was the same way he wouldn't touch his greens at all. Then I watched him try to eat calcium powder off his carpet like it was the greatest thing he'd ever ate. So I started putting some on his greens then I watched him devour his greens. I try to keep switching it up to keep him interested. I actually found endive at my grocery store which he loves...I have no clue what it is or how it tastes but he loves it. I spend so much time in the produce section buying things i've never heard of.
That is too funny. I have tried calcium on the greens etc and he still snubs his nose. Do you put our greens in a dish or on the floor?
 

Toasty

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
18
kale, turnip greens, oranges, green beans, melon, strawberries, watermelon that I can remember. He eats at 8 am and 5 pm.

Turnip greens are a great green for them, kale can be used occassionally but due to the amount of oxalates and goitrogens it contains it isn't a good choice for a staple green. Green beans are a great staple veggie. Oranges, melon, strawberries, and watermelon are ok when feed occassionally in small amounts. I would also try offering other types of greens (collard, mustard, and dandelion) as well, and I think it would definitely be worth trying endive and escarole as well. Prickly pear cactus pads (I dice it up into teeny pieces to make it easier to eat) are and excellent staple veggie, as are the different squashes (acorn, butternut, scallop, spaghetti, summer) and grating them makes them much more readily accepted.

Do you offer the salad at the same time as the live prey? If so, Iwould suggest putting the bowl of salad in first, and waiting at least half an hour before feeding the live prey to encourage him to try some of the salad first. Same thing for the afternoon/evening feeding. He'll come around eventually, try not to get too discouraged!
 

Pat B

Super Moderator
Messages
1,469
Location
Columbia SC
Oh....I am not discouraged because I know the little booger will eat greens when he is ready. I will try some turnip greens and I think I will try baby food. I have learned since I have had my little 'monster boy' that he will do things on his own. Right now....he needs a ginormous poop because he pigged out on crickets yesterday and his belly is big :D . When he does that then he will eat. That seems to be his pattern....lol!! Have a good day....:rolleyes:
 

slices mommy

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
170
I put them in a dish. That is usually his breakfast then i'll go back a few hours later and give him cricket's. Like you said he'll do it on his own. Mine took a little while but just the greens sitting there for a little while before I fed crix seemed to work. It was almost like he had never noticed they were there lol...he just walked up and looked at them like WHAT is this!!!! And just started tearing them up.
 

blackclaw83

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
208
Location
Copperas Cove Tx
I guess i got lucky with my Spazz. He loves his greens. I think he is around 3 months and he rips in to them. now. he is being picky about crix agin.....lol. but he is a good little man
 

Toasty

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
18
Regarding live feeders, I'd be interested to find out which ones y'all use, how many different ones you include in the diet, and would love to hear your opinions on using a variety of different feeders. Am also very interested in hearing other's reasons for trying to provide a lot of variety as well as from those who don't, using pretty much only one staple prey item. Thanks in advance!
 

blackclaw83

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
208
Location
Copperas Cove Tx
i am going through spots where Spazz dosnt want crixs, so we are thinking of trying out Phx worms. He/she is also picky in that he wont eat them if dusted with cal. So we have to gut load the crix with it first.
:eek:
 

Germ

Bearded Dragon Veteran
3 Year Member
1,000+ Post Club
Messages
4,493
Location
North America
Regarding live feeders, I'd be interested to find out which ones y'all use, how many different ones you include in the diet, and would love to hear your opinions on using a variety of different feeders. Am also very interested in hearing other's reasons for trying to provide a lot of variety as well as from those who don't, using pretty much only one staple prey item. Thanks in advance!
I use Discoid Roaches (Very similar to Dubia, but bigger & move a little faster.), because they are as good as any, better than most live feeders. They are nutritious, quite high in protein, low in fat, great meat\shell ratio, easy to gutload because they will eat just about anything, have a 1.5-2 year lifespan & hold dusting very well.

My BDs readily eat them & If I want to vary their nutrition, I vary the gutload. They are very easy to house, breed, feed, maintain, and with the slightest amount of care & common sense, very easy to contain.

Variety can be a good thing, but just like a young child, given too many choices, BDs can become picky & only choose to eat their favorites, refuse the rest. More times than not, the favorites are like Candy & not the best for them nutritionally.
 

blackclaw83

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
208
Location
Copperas Cove Tx
I have figured that out with the mealworms lol.....durning the shed Spazz would not touch crixs so we gave him one mealy a day. Then after a day of no Mealys and not touching the crixs that were giving to him he got the idea
 

slices mommy

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
170
I've been feeding as many cricket's as he'll eat then offering mealworms. I've been considering buying a dubia starter colony on the 1st. I found that my store I go to has them but said it will be MONTHS before they are ready to sell. My only other option is to buy them on the internet. I have tried breeding cricket's but I forgot to mist the sand and they've dried out. I think now that Germ mentioned it i'll check prices on discoids.
 

Germ

Bearded Dragon Veteran
3 Year Member
1,000+ Post Club
Messages
4,493
Location
North America
Dubias are just as good, they are really very similar until they become adults, exactly the same care & I'm told they don't scoot around as fast. Discoids are not quite as easy to distinguish between adult male & female because they both have full wings, but once you are familiar with them they are fairly easy. I chose Discoids simply because I found the adults easier on the eyes than the Dubia ;), & think they are actually a rather pretty bug if you don't take into consideration what they are. Many people prefer the Dubia because they are slightly smaller & slower moving & they are more common. If you click my signature, it will take you to my website, there are several vids of my colonies, feeding them & feeding them to the BDs :p.
 

slices mommy

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
170
I had no clue about clicking the signature lol. I'm going to go watch the video's now. I don't care about roaches being in the house honestly. I know my house is clean and they are for food and if people don't like it then they don't have to come here. I also have dead mice in the freezer lmao. The cats knocked a carrier with cricket's off the counter in the middle of the night and let about 90 cricket's loose in the house. So the sound is pretty bad sometimes but we can all sleep still. It just feels like we're camping. As for egg care for the roaches what do you have to do?
 

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