Odd First Superworm Experience

[Drogo]

I picked up some superworms from PetSmart a few days ago, Drogo never had them before. The chick at PetSmart said to cut the heads off before feeding them to my dragon. However, I read a lot of stuff online that said that was just a myth, and the stomach acids in the dragon's system would dissolve anything that wasn't chewed up enough and that the worms would die a few seconds after being chomped anyway, so I opted not to do that.

He ate probably 8 of them the first day and did not go to the bathroom the next day. The next day, he ate probably 4 and didn't touch his greens much. I got home from work yesterday (the 3rd day after the original consumption) and there were a couple piles of poop but there were also segments of the worm scattered ALL OVER the tank. It wasn't just in a pile so I don't know if he was throwing them up, pooping as he was running around or what. It seemed very odd that they were so scattered. There was even some liquid that was kinda running down the side of the tank, almost like he vomitted against the glass. Given the placement of the pieces of worm that were stuck to the side of the glass (a few inches higher than ground level), I have NO IDEA how it could even get there.

I went back to the pet store to get some crickets so he could be back on his familiar diet, but he didn't eat any that night. It looked like he was feeling sick.

I'm watching him now on his webcam and he is being very active and eating his greens so I think he is feeling better today.

Any ideas on what happened? Should I not feed him Superworms again?

 

[ThDude]

he may very well have vomited, if this is the case he may not eat for a while. he may have just ate to fast/to much all at once and vomited it back up.

 

[Drogo]

he may very well have vomited, if this is the case he may not eat for a while.

Like I said, he's already eating again so that's good.

he may have just ate to fast/to much all at once and vomited it back up.

The "mess" didnt happen until 2 days after scarfing em down so I don't think it was because he ate too fast.
If it was vomit, would I see a fluid of some kind? I mainly just saw dry unprocessed segments of the superworms scattered around.

 

[Em Lynch]

this does seem very odd, i tend to avoid super worms i only use them as a backup feeder. My girl has problems digesting them and when she eats them there are large undigested segments within the poop but never just scattered around :/ were they particularly large? i know if my BD is very hungry she'll chew them very little before swallowing and this could cause problems in a bearded dragon that isn't used to eating them. My BD walks around whilst she poops sometimes its not uncommon, then she paces through it all if i'm not careful! sometimes resulting in it going up the glass u_u
I would avoid feeding them again in such large quantities, for now until he's older

 

[Drogo]

Thanks for the info.

The segments were not large, no. I did watch him when he ate the superworms and he ate them fast, probably not completely chewing them up, but breaking them up enough to be swollowed. Yeah everything being scattered is what concerned me the most. I've never seen Drogo walk while pooping either. On his usually cricket feeding schedule, he poops in the same spot every time (below basking spot), so seeing something so different was alarming.

I wasn't sure how many to feed em either. I eyeballed the superworms and compared them to the size of the usual crickets and guestimated from there. I don't want to throw the rest of them away so maybe I'll wait awhile then let him try some in smaller doses.

 

[Germ]

Beardies Chew??? LOL

 

[Noella]

Beardies Chew??? LOL

Yeppers! Mine does! LOL!

Whenever mine eats supers, I don't give her a lot. I give her two with the heads intact once in a blue moon.

 

[Aleena]

I've never had these kinds of problems with super worms. Mine get 10 a piece probably once every two weeks. Of course, both of them are adults. And I've never chopped the heads off of them.

 

[Spikeleebd]

it might be because his basking spot hisn't getting hot enough so he can properly digest his food if his basking spot is too low you will get partially digested food because the body can't heat up enough to digest all of its food witch could be bad because it can potentially lead to your bds intestines being cut witch can lead to blood in the poo and also your bd can't benefit from getting all of the nutrition from its food that it needs

 

[sircactuscat]

Mhm.. Glad he's better now, he may of had just too many and ate too fast. Nice pic of him BTW

 

[Drogo]

it might be because his basking spot hisn't getting hot enough so he can properly digest his food if his basking spot is too low you will get partially digested food because the body can't heat up enough to digest all of its food witch could be bad because it can potentially lead to your bds intestines being cut witch can lead to blood in the poo and also your bd can't benefit from getting all of the nutrition from its food that it needs

I know this and that's not a problem. His basking spot is around 115 degrees and all other food has been properly digested. I'll just abort superworms for the time being.

 

[Monroe]

Hello Drogo,

If that's a photo of Drogo, he looks really small, and it appears that he overate big time. Superworms are fattier than crickets, and are thought by some to be best used as a supplement or treat. One of my bearded dragons was bought from a breeder in Sacramento, CA, and I was told by him that it was OK to use them instead of crickets, but only 5 per day. I now have another beardie who eats mostly fruits and veggies, supplemented with roughly 3 crickets per day. It appeared that my other beardie who ate the superworms became so finicky that he wouldn't eat his veggies any longer, and also appeared to have fat, though it could have been just the way his skin hung for his particular breeding. Superworms are great protein.

The residue on the tank could have gotten there from Drogo trying to get out and pawing at the glass, which I see happening regularly, especially with males. I've also seen the undigested heads of crickets after the fact, so it's probably not a big deal if you don't cut the heads off, and what a task that would be.

All the best with Drogo.

Sally

 

[Drogo]

That photo is not from the same time period that I tried the Superworms so it shouldn't be used to evalutate his size. I only tried Superworms the one day and had a negative experience so have since not tried them again. He's still healthy and rockin' crix everyday.

 

[Germ]

Superworms are great protein.

Superworms have a similar percentage of protein to crickets, give or take 2% 0r 3% with approximately 3 times the percentage of fat.

 

[Alisha OK]

I thought my dragon would love super worms and meal worms, so I gave him a few when i first got him. same thing happened and i founds piles of it all over the tank. ever since I've been feeding crickets and greens and Sully's been doing perfect haha seems like he has no time for any worms ! hah!

 

[Pat B]

Isn't your beardie still little? Superworms are BIG!! You might try large mealie worms....they are smaller and might be easier for him to digest....superworms freak me out....

 

[Alisha OK]

Isn't your beardie still little? Superworms are BIG!! You might try large mealie worms....they are smaller and might be easier for him to digest....superworms freak me out....

Yes he is little ! Forgot to mention that I was misinformed by local petstores about feeding him. Never again going I a petstores about problems. Always coming here

 

[BeardieMama]

Wow, I am so confused . Harry lives mainly on supers. He doesn't really like crickets but I can get him to eat maybe 15-20 a week and he picks at his greens, but he will eat 8-10 supers a day and wants more. I try to coax him to eat more salad and I have given him quite the variety of salads but he loves the supers. Am I doing something wrong? Now I am concerned he isn't getting what he needs. He is 21 months old now and 15 1/2 inches long. He poops normal and seems healthy. I am a first time beardie owner so I am learning something new every day.

 

[Germ]

He may not be eating as much of the greens because you are feeding him prey every day, when a BD that age should only be fed prey 2-3 times a week.

General feeding/supplementation schedule:
For hatchlings and young juveniles (up to 2 months): Fresh greens/veg. 1-2 times daily - Live prey 2-3 times per day
Dusted: Five days per week with phosphorus free calcium – one day per week calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

For juveniles and sub-adults (2 months to sexual maturity): Fresh greens/veg 1-2 times daily - Live prey 1-2 times per day
Dusted: Five days per week with phosphorus free calcium – One day per week with calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

For adults (generally 1+ year): Fresh greens/veg 1- 2 times daily - Live prey every 2-3 days.
Dusted: Every other feeding with phosphorus free calcium - Twice per month with calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

As there are different circumstances that may arise, this schedule is recommended only as a general guide and may be altered to accommodate individual situations. Using a tracking method of when you dust prevents unnecessary use of product and more importantly, potential harm to your dragon! With proper and effective UVB lighting, supplementation with vitamin D3 is not imperative but should be provided in small amounts. Excessive levels of oral vitamin D3 can potentially lead to the excessive absorption and utilization of calcium and/or toxicity as can the excessive use of supplements containing high levels of vitamin A. Over use of any supplement can have the potential to cause serious health problems, stick to an appropriate supplementation schedule.

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Read more: http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/index.php?threads/basic-bd-care-sheet-a-place-to-start.5177/#ixzz22SFR7RZ1​

Amendment to Supplementation: Here is an article providing a good explanation to give an understanding on the Calcium to Phosphorous & Fat to Protien ratio ...

The main points to look out for are the fat content and the Ca: P ratio.​

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Ca: P Ratio and Reptiles​

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Many have heard about the Ca/P ratio but not many understand what it means to your reptiles. The Ca: P ratio is simply the ratio of Calcium compared to Phosphorus and so a Ca: P ratio of 1 (one or 1:1) would mean that Calcium & Phosphorus are found in equal quantities, a Ca: P ratio of 0.5 (half or 0.5:1) means that there is half the amount of Calcium than there is Phosphorus. An ideal Ca: P ratio would be around 2 (two or 2:1) as this will allow calcium to be easily absorbed.​

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So why is this important? It has to do with the way Calcium is absorbed by your reptile's intestine. For any calcium to be absorbed, there needs to be at least equal quantities of Calcium and Phosphorus in their food. If the Phosphorus is much higher, then not only will it prevent calcium being absorbed, but may even leach calcium that is already present in your reptile's body. This can lead to serious problems such as MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease). When Calcium and Phosphorus are dissolved in equal quantities, it forms an insoluble salt (Calcium Phosphate) which is very difficult to absorb by your reptile's intestine. If there is a large amount of phosphorus compared to the calcium, then all the calcium will be bound by the phosphorus and none will be available for your reptile. If there is a large excess of calcium, then no phosphorus can be absorbed, which is also a vital mineral but not needed in as large a quantity as calcium. Ideally the Ca/P ratio for most vertebrates is around 2 (also written as 2:1).​

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Fat vs Protein​

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Another thing to look out for is the amount of fat compared to protein. Fat contains twice as many calories as protein, but doesn't provide any of the nutritional benefits that are gained from proteins from their amino acids which are essential for the health of any living creature. The calories from fat are often called "empty calories" in dietary terminology. Most insectivorous reptiles will receive greater benefit from a high protein/low fat diet.​

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Source - http://www.leedspetshops.co.uk/​

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Read more: http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/index.php?threads/basic-bd-care-sheet-a-place-to-start.5177/#ixzz22SFdCFnS​