Newbie Questions and Concerns

[Tassadar]

Hi all! This is my first post and I had a few concerns.

First off, I just got my baby a few days ago and she has eaten very little live food and no greens, and has gone to the bathroom twice (supposed to be a good sign).

She must be less than a month old as she is only 5 1/2 inches, isn't she supposed to eat A LOT?

Also lighting, I have the basking heat lamp and the brighter light. She only hangs out on one side of the cage, but ventures off sometimes, but stays under the heat lamp all day and hangs out. She gets moved to a seperate enclosure to eat and always wants back into the bigger tank ( I do this because the crickets are SO small and will literally never get eaten by her and will do damage to her if left in there for too long), when I try to move her or when ANY motion comes around she gets realllllll aggressive and has even bit me a few times.


Is this all normal behavior? She got shipped so it could be relocation stress but the breeder said it could take a while for her to get used to me and the fact that she has gone to the bathroom and has eaten at all is a great sign.

Concerned newbie, help is wonderful. Also are there any tricks to get her used to me? I work 10 hour days and have someone attempt to feed her during the day while I am gone. I just want her to love me like I already love her.

Thanks everyone!


Edit: Also, lighting has been a concern, I know the tank is hot and the basking spot temp. is correct but should I have both light fixed INSIDE the tank or ontop of the wire? It's a 40gallon tank, I will try to upload pictures when I get off work. I have seen these setups two different ways.

 

[Pat B]

Her behavior sounds perfectly normal. I would not handle her for about a week - 10 days. Her enclosure is new and big so she needs to get used to it and she is tiny. It is usually recommended to feed in her tank. She will find the crix. Feed her just a few at a time so she can find them. Give her greens every day even though she might not eat them. The basking side should be about 110-115 degrees and cool side about 85. You didn't mention a UVB light....do you have one? And if she is eating and pooping that is a good sign. You need to have probe thermometers to get an accurate temperature reading. Those round ones don't give you an accurate temp. When you go to pick her up always go from her front so she will see you coming. If you can post some pics that helps tremendously to make sure your husbandry is good to go. If you have her on sand get rid of it. She is too tiny. Use paper towels, newspapers, etc.
When I first got Spike he was in a 20 gal tank and the light hung down into the tank. He burnt he tail and now has a stub. No beautiful long tail..... Good luck with your baby girl and keep us posted as to how she is doing. And ask any question.....there is never a stupid one!!

 

[beardieparents7780]

First of all its a new enviorment! Second I always feed my beardies in feeder tanks. Dont worry if they wont eat right away. Get them on a feeding sched and keep ur lighting right. For baby beardies you want to go ard 105-110 keep the cool side ard 80-85. Dont put a water bowl! Its useless they dont need it and its not part of their natural habitat ! Always keep a good mix of greens available! Should be eating 30-50 small crickets a day right now. Also bathing ur bearding is important too. I suggest at the least 2 times a week at minimum in a warm not too hot bath it hydrates them and helps bowl movements. Also whats your enclosure size, what watt basking light do you have? Do you have a proper uvb light? Also you should invest in a infrared temp gauge. Make sure your temps are correct. You can get one for abt 10-20 dollars. Also keep the diet diverse get crickets and gut load them. Stay away from mealworms for now..dust ur crickets with a vitamin supplement and a calcium supplement as well. If u dont have a reptisun 10.0 UVB go get one asap its 100% critical! I suggest mounting inside the enclosure not on top of the screen top. DONT BUY A REPTIGLOW they are garbage! Bakchoy and dandelion greens are great always keep them available! Dont use pet store sand invest in reptile carpert its washable and perfect for them! Paper towels will also do right now. **MODERATED-advertising**

 

[beardieparents7780]

My 6 month old boy

Here he is 3 weeks ago

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

@beardieparents7780

While a lot of your information is perfectly viable for accuracy sake some things need to be revised as they are not entirely correct.

-Firstly the use of separate "feeder tanks" is a personal choice and is not truly a necessity. If the enclosure is properly set up and not over crowded with a bunch of unnecessary clutter and hides for live feeders making is more difficult for your dragon to hunt,find and catch their feeders then feeding in their regular enclosure is perfectly fine and many including myself would argue that it is much less stressful on the dragon than yanking them out of their comfy home and plopping them in another tub and tossing their feeders in there and then yanking them back out again and returning them to their home. Besides that by feeding them in their home it allows you to leave feeders in their enclosure for them to "snack" on during the day at their leisure, much as they do in the wild. One caveat to this is that you should make sure to remove any left over feeders before lights out due to the fact that crickets and such may disturb your dragon's sleep at night and might possibly nibble on it when the lights are out.
-Proper basking temperature for a baby or juvenile dragon needs to be 110 degrees Fahrenheit to facilitate proper digestion.
-While many young dragons do have very hardy appetites when it comes to live prey a better judge of whether they are eating enough is to let observe how many they eat in a 10-15 minute period of time. This is more to give you an estimate on how many live feeders to keep on hand more than it is to give you a marker of if they are eating enough as you will find that your dragon's appetite will vary from one feeding to another. They are a much better judge as to how many of whatever they need to eat than we are.
-As for live prey choices there is nothing wrong with mealworms BUT they should be used in moderation and are not the best choice for a staple live feeder. Your better choices would be Cricket or Roaches(Dubias,Discoids) as properly gut-load they will provide a much greater source of nutrition for your dragon. Mealworms, Superworms, Butterworms, Hornworms etc are better used as treats and fed only occassionally. Also never fed your dragon wild caught insects you find as they may contain parasites and or have been exposed to chemicals which could harm your dragon.
-Proper Supplementation means more than simply dusting with calcium and vitamin powder. These products while good for your dragon and necessary for their health if misused or over-used can actually cause great harm to your dragon.
Here is a proper guide to feeding and proper supplementation from our thread Basic BD Care Sheet- A Place to Start:

General feeding/supplementation schedule:
For hatchlings and young juveniles (up to 2 months): Fresh greens/veg. 1-2 times daily - Live prey 2-3 times per day
Dusted: All Live Prey five days per week with phosphorus free calcium – one day per week calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

For juveniles and sub-adults (2 months to sexual maturity): Fresh greens/veg 1-2 times daily - Live prey 1-2 times per day
Dusted: All Live Prey five days per week with phosphorus free calcium – One day per week with calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

For adults (generally 1+ year): Fresh greens/veg 1- 2 times daily - Live prey every 2-3 days.
Dusted: Live Prey every other feeding with phosphorus free calcium - Twice per month with calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

As there are different circumstances that may arise, this schedule is recommended only as a general guide and may be altered to accommodate individual situations. Using a tracking method of when you dust prevents unnecessary use of product and more importantly, potential harm to your dragon! With proper and effective UVB lighting, supplementation with vitamin D3 is not imperative but should be provided in small amounts. Excessive levels of oral vitamin D3 can potentially lead to the excessive absorption and utilization of calcium and/or toxicity as can the excessive use of supplements containing high levels of vitamin A. Over use of any supplement can have the potential to cause serious health problems, stick to an appropriate supplementation schedule.

-Bathing or "soaking" your dragon really is not necessary more than once per week unless during a shed when you may want to bath more often to help the shedding process and to sooth the discomfort your dragon feels during that shed. Soaks should be done for 20-25 minutes in 100-105 degree water and the water should only be as deep as your dragon's shoulders. You can do this is a plastic tub,sink or bathtub. Many folks use ordinary cat litter pans for baby and juvi dragons. Also be aware that dragons can swim very well but never leave your dragon unsupervised while he is in "the Spa".

-The minimum size tank enclosure for a baby or juvi dragon is a 20 gallon Long. Your dragon will outgrow this tank quickly however and you will need to plan on getting an adult-sized enclosure. The minimum size for an adult dragon is a 40 gallon Breeder tank. Also be aware that many people start off by getting the adult size tank to save money which is a perfectly viable option. If you choose to do this however it is very important to remember to stick with only the very basic necessities as far as decorations to so that it is easier for your dragon to find it's live prey. The basics that a dragon needs as far as furnishings is a single shallow food dish for their "salad", a basking perch and perhaps a good size stone which will aid in naturally keeping his claws trim.

continued next post....

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

-Infrared Temperature Guns will not work in a tank enclosure which has a screen top or any other enclosure which has an obstructed view of the place you are trying to measure. That includes glass. Or that you have lights and equipment that has to be moved out of the way to use. These obstacles will make the Infraed Temp Gun give you totally inaccurate readings.
The best way to measure your temps is with two(2) digital thermometers with remote probes. One needs to be placed and the remote probe attached to the coolest spot in your enclosure and the other placed and the remote probe attached directly to the basking spot. Placement is the key. Do not attached them to the sides or glass of your enclosure because they will give you inaccurate reads. Attach the probes direct to the spots you need to monitor.
Just a reminder...Basking Spot Temp for baby and juvi dragons needs to be 110 degrees Fahrenheit and the cool side temp needs to be 80-85 degrees Fahrenheit. These are daytime temps.

-When choosing a UV bulb and fixture it is much better to use the tube type UV bulbs rather than the coil type bulbs. BOTH ReptiSun and ReptiGlo tube type bulbs are perfectly good bulbs. The bad press that ReptiGlo had a few years ago was from some unsubstantiated claims and no proof that they have ever done any harm to dragons has ever been found. I do prefer ReptiSun bulbs but only because in my experience they last a little longer however they are also much more expensive than ReptiGlo bulbs so I use both type unless I find a great sale on ReptiSun. Arcadia bulbs are another choice out their. I haven't personally used them but they have a great customer rating and I haven't heard anyone say anything bad about them.
When you set up a tube type fixture it is preferred to mount it inside the tank. The reason being that when mounted outside above a screen the screen can filter up to 50% of the UV light reaching your dragon. What this calculates to is your bulb not being effect as long. When mounting above the screen you will have to replace your 10.0 UV bulb every 6 months. When mounted inside your dragon dragon get full unobstructed UV and your bulb doesn't have to be replaced but once per year per manufacturer.

-Sand or any particulate substrate is a definite NO for any dragon under 10 inches from snout tip to tail tip. There are many great choice to select from though some of which are slate tiles, non-adhesive vinyl floor tiles, repticarpet, and others. Once your dragon is of the appropriate size and as long as they are healthy and well hydrated if you want to use a particulate substrate the you can safely use Washed, Sifted, Children's Playsand. This can be found at Home Depot, Lowes and many other sources and has been used safely by hundreds of breeders and keepers for decades without incident. You do want to steer clear of Calci-Sand, Excavator Sand,Crushed Walnut Shells, Bark and most of the other particulate substrates that are sold in the pet shops. Most of them pose a very high degree of impaction risk. However Washed,Sifted,Children's Playsand does not because when ingested it does not clump but instead crumbles apart and passes straight thru the dragon's digestive system.THESE ARE FACTS.
Again The requirements for using Washed,Sifted Children's Playsand are that your dragon be 10+ inches snout tip to tail tip, that he be healthy and well hydrated.

We here at the BDF strive very hard to provide only accurate and thorough fact based information to provide you and your dragon the very best chance for a long and healthy life together. Below you will find some great links to even more in depth and solid Bearded Dragon Care Info. In them you will probably find the answers to most of your questions but never fear to ask if you have other. Our community is slammed pack with knowledgeable and experienced "Beardie Folk" that are eager to help

Basic BD Care Sheet-A Place to Start

Bearded Dragon Exclusive Care Library

Bearded Dragon Diet Nutritional Information

Bearded Dragon Co-Habitation-A Good Plan???

How To Sex A Bearded Dragon

 

[beardieparents7780]

I agee with ur post. I use feeder tanks due to the size of their enclosure. Its 6x2x2 so I prefer to do it that way instead of hunting down and clearing out crickets etc they havent ate. If you have a smaller enclosure sure this is not needed. My enclosure is not cluttered and offers them plenty of space and trust me I keep my temp at the corret levels at all times. As for the infrared temp gauge its works to perfection I read temps through out the enclosure 3-4x a day and keep my basking lights and cool side at the right levels on dimmers to adjust.

 

[beardieparents7780]

And of course who would measure your temps through glass or screen ? You measure inside the tank and they are more accurate then mounting a cheap temp gauge on ur enclosure wall.

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

And of course who would measure your temps through glass or screen ? You measure inside the tank and they are more accurate then mounting a cheap temp gauge on ur enclosure wall.

You would be surprized at how many folks that are new to dragon care buy the infrared temp guns because someone said they were the best thing to use but failed to mention that they are only good with specific enclosure setups. The most common setup by far that folks get for their dragon is the tank setup with a screen top which makes the infrared temp guns useless.
In order for them to give you accurate readings the view has to be both unobstructed and the enclosure environment undisturbed. Even on enclosures with front opening doors for example that can be opened to give an unobstructed view you will not be getting an absolute true reading because when you open the doors of the enclosure you are changing the environmental conditions inside the enclosure.
An great example of a setup where an infrared temp gun actually works and is a good choice can be seen in in a few threads posted by Germ another of our Mods. His enclosure is tall enough that a screen top is not needed and his lighting doesn't have to be moved so he is able to use an infrared temp gun and get accurate readings because the environment is not disturbed and the line of sight is totally unobstructed.
For most folks however the absolute best choice for monitoring temps accurately is by means of the two(2) digital thermometers with remote probes placed correctly as I described earlier.
The worst method on any setup would be using any of the analog thermometers that are sold in the pet shops and also included in most "Bearded Dragon Kits" as well.
Proper temperatures and proper temp gradients are crucial to the health of a dragon and in order to maintain those it is likewise crucial that you fully understand what type of thermometers will and will not work for your setup.
Again the huge majority of keepers will choose the tank w/screen top type setup or another type of setup that will make the infrared temp guns inaccurate so the best and right choice would be to use the dual digital thermometers with remote probes.

Enjoy!

 

[beardieparents7780]

I use the infrared temp gauge my enclosure is 6x2x2 it's accurate and haven't had a problem at all. Guess just depends on your setup like you said .

 

[Tassadar]

Well I have upgraded her palace a little bit!

She now has a 150w basking bulb/day light and a 150w CHE for night time (tends to get semi cold at night and she wakes up very grumpy). I also got her a 10.0 Reptisun UVB with a Zilla hood fixture that I will be mounting inside her cage today!

She is still extremely stressed and hasn't touched greens but once, maybe twice. She eats crickets once a day but is offered them multiple times. She loves being handled despite attempting to look tough and bite me she just licks and falls asleep on me.

She also had her first shed and is using the bathroom a couple of hours after she eats (so once a day). I also probably shouldn't do this but it's cute, I take my sprat bottle apart and let her drink from it like an eyedropper and she loves it, also prefers to drink water while in my hand or on her basking spot.

I used a digital thermometer to check the temperatures and the basking side is right at 108-111 and her cool side does not pass 85. She runs around a lot and glass dances often but mostly just sits on her branch ALL the time basking and resting, unless I get home from work in which case, she wants to eat and run around.

Everything seems to be going better but she is still fairly scared of a lot and opens her mouth at me when I get near but once I scoop her up (gently of course) her stress markings go away and she gets curious about me.


Thanks for the help everyone! I will upload pictures of her palace and of her when I get home, she is a 5 1/2 almost 6 inch Red Female Tiger, courtesy of Bloodbank Dragons!





EDIT: Also, I have a question concerning another dragon. I really REALLY want a male hypo/translucent and I was wondering about housing him with my female. I know people say NOT to do this and I don't intend on it unless a majority votes in favor of it (you guys). I don't have a problem housing him elsewhere but I was just curious as to what you guys had to say on that particular matter. I would try to get one around the same age/size as her as not to intimidated her or anything.

I'm a noob and don't see the problem with a male/female being housed together, a male/male or female/female I see the problem with, or are they just extremely territorial even to the point of the opposite sex?

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Germ]

This, previously provided in another post, should answer your question on cohabitation ...

Is Bearded Dragon Co-habitation a good plan?

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

I can not stress to you how much of a mistake you will be making if you decide to Co-Habitatate bearded dragons together regardless of age or sex. These creatures are dominance based and very territorial. In the wild they only come together for very short periods of time in which to mate and then part ways. They do not form bonds with each other nor do they have permanent mates. Other than those brief encounters to mate these creatures live solitary lives by choice and will defend their piece of ground readily.

Many folks totally misinterpret bearded dragons when they see "cute" pictures of two our more dragons "cuddling" or basking together such as these examples:

Pictures like these while being adorable are in fact NOT so adorable when you know the facts. What is actually going on in photos like these is a jockeying for dominance, the dragon on top after-all gets the best basking spot, best of the UV and heat that they need to thrive. There is no affection going on and instead one dragon simply dominating and the other being dominated.

This is a set up for constant stress on the creatures and their nature of being dominant, territorial and solitary creatures creates an atmosphere where battle over food, basking spots,etc is a constant and present threat.

Do not be fooled by their cuteness together. It is not cute for them I assure you. Also do not be fooled as some thinking that you can just watch them closely and be there to break up the battle when it comes because you can not be there 24/7 and it can and will happen in the blink of an eye ending in severe damage, loss of limbs or worse the unnecessary loss of life to one of your dragon's.

One of the hardest pills to have to swallow in life is an injury or worse death to a creature that you have committed to care for which you could have easily prevented from happening in the first place.

Co-habitation of these beautiful dragons is simply not an option!

Still need more convincing of the dangers??? Follow this link, read through the thread and watch the video...Then ask yourself if it is worth the risk.

Bearded Dragon Co-Habitation-A Good Plan???

Hope this answers your question.


Enjoy!!

 

[Tassadar]

Yikes! Speerate housing for my next beardie for sure! Thank you guys so much for the heads up, I won't even consider it!!

Does anyone know a good site for Hypo/translucents? I'm suddenly crazing another one, an older one that is. I love my little baby tiger so much but a hypo/translucent is too beautiful not to have, I have my baby buddy. now time for just the big buddy.