New to the forum and world of beardies

[Drogo]

Hi, I'm Kris.
After doing a lot of research on bearded dragons, I just bought 2 babies, Drogo & Khaleesi.

If you would like to see them, check out their first HD video:

After reading more about them (after the video was made), I decided to put them in separate tanks, eventhough they appeared to be doing OK living with each other. Their diets currently consist of small crickets and fresh organic kale. I've read that sand isn't the best choice for their tank but I'm monitoring their eating to make sure they are not ingesting too much into their bodies and trying to be generally observant over the sand.

I have a couple questions, please don't snap at me. I'm new to reptilian pets and am asking for the sake of improving my pet's lives...

1.) Right now, I am going to the store every 2 days and picking up a few dozen crickets. Is there a better long-term way to shop for food? Should I buy a small housing unit for the crickets and buy more at a time? I'm just wondering if the people at the pet store are thinking "why doesn't this idiot just buy more crickets instead of coming back here tomorrow?" If I buy a weeks worth of crickets, will my apt be chirping all night? If I provide a piece of potato to sustain the crickets, how long are they expected to live?

2.) I've read that their tanks should be small at first, as to not stress them out. Originally I was thinking, it's a pet - the more space you can give them, the better. Why does an animal like this get stressed out if it has TOO MUCH space? Wouldn't that mean in the wild, these creatures would go insane because of their unlimited amount of free space? I don't get the logic.

I have a 50 gallon tank and it looks awesome - lots of stuff to climb on, a nice basking area, room to run. Drogo doesn't seem stressed, he chases crickets up and down the length of the aquarium, he snacks on his kale during the day and warms himself under the heat lamp. He explores all the space in the aquarium - I have a webcam setup inside it so I can keep an eye on him while I'm at work during the day So why is this too big of a tank? Is it possible he was stressed at first but is now comfortable with the tank's large size? Are there any signs of stress I should look for to see if he's bothered by the abundance of space?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Germ]

Hi Kris,

 

[Germ]

Particle substrate is not recommended at all for BDs under 10". I could be wrong, but that really, suspiciously looks like Calci-Sand. An extremely high impaction risk. I highly recommend removing it & using Newspaper, Paper towel, textured tile or some other non-particle substrate. I also strongly suggest, as you mentioned, separating them, like yesterday .

As far as tank size, I have never understood why people say that size stresses them out, either. In my opinion & experience, it's not the size, it's clutter that is the culprit. When a dragon is young, it's enclosure should be sparsely furnished, giving the feeders no place to hide, so it is not hard for it find & hunt them. Dress the enclosure when it's older. A sparsely furnished enclosure also makes it easier for you to find & remove the hiding crix before lights out which can & will come out at night & bother your BDs' sleep by crawling & nibbling on it. In extreme cases, cause lesions or sores.

Using a Cricket Keeper or a plastic tote to house crickets in & buying 3-500 at a time would likely make more sense, crickets should be properly 'Gutloaded' minimum 24 hrs prior to feeding. They are rarely fed a Nutritious gutload in the store prior to purchase. The size of Crix that you should be feeding would be unlikely to be chirping at night, as it is usually only the adults that chirp. There are many places to purchase them online much cheaper than Pet Store prices.

Could not tell in the video if you are providing UVB or not & if they can get close enough to it for it to be effective in any way.

Here is a good color coded Nutrition list of what is good & not so good to feed.
Beautiful Dragons Nutrition List

You may find the two stickied posts at the top of General Discussion of interest to you, on care & cohabitation.

You do have a beautiful looking enclosure, I'm just unsure how practical & easy it will be for them to acclimate. And the Sand thing should be rectified ASAP.

Once again,

 

[Drogo]

Thanks for the information. I'm glad to hear the size of my tank is not a serious issue. After reading the thread on Cohabitation, I'm very happy I went against my gut and separated the 2 babies into different tanks before anything bad could happen.

My biggest concern still is the sand. I have to double check the type of sand I bought, but I read in the General Discussion sticky that "despite the negative hype, children’s play sand is one of the best options when properly maintained", but then saw the xray photos of a dragon with high impaction from sand so I am a little confused.

I have Drogo's kale elevated on some rocks, as to minimize any sand my beardie may bring up to his food dish before he eats. When he eats crickets, he's flicking his tongue at it more than he is shoveling his mouth into the sand or anything like that. So it seems to me, he is not ingesting a lot of sand - but how do I know for sure? I've tried looking at his poop to see if there were heavy grains of sand, but it's hard to tell. If a cricket has some grains of sand stuck to his legs, is that enough to cause concern, or only if he's ingesting large quantities? I also read in the general care sticky that "Dragons seem to enjoy soaking in warm water and it may help to assist in hydration, clearing of any impactions..." Is this to say a warm bath could help prevent impaction problems?

Eliminating the sand is one way to play it safe, I realize, but is there anything else I can do as a precaution to continue using sand? If everyone STRONGLY advises against it (rather than just "not recommending it") I will substitute it with something else.

 

[Germ]

Okay, let me reword, Calci-sand should not be used at all, for any size BD. The X-ray that you saw the Pic of, is of a Calci-Sand impaction. Calci-Sand clumps & binds together when moistened, will harden like cement. On the other hand, Children's washed Play-Sand is clean, has no binding agent, is just tiny rocks & will simply fall apart during the digestive process & pass right through a well hydrated BD. If my memory serves me right, it states in the sticky for 10"+ BDs. For smaller dragons it is really not a good plan & we STRONGLY advise against it.

If you bought the Sand in a pet store, I can be almost positive that it is Calcium Sand. Although most packaging does say that it is BD safe, too many unfortunate experiences, such as depicted in the X-ray pic, has proved that terribly wrong.

Children's Washed Play Sand is & always has been my choice of substrate for years, for all my BDs 10+". There are 'Safer' non-particle substrates, but if a particle substrate is to be used, Children's Washed Play Sand is the only one that I recommend. Common sense has to be used, if it is Gravel or is too coarse coming out of the bag, it has to sifted/strained prior to putting it in the enclosure.

Warms soaks help with hydration, many BDs will drink while bathing & is a huge help with shedding. And a warm soak will more times than not, promote a 'Poop', which will aid in the clearing of minor impactions & constipation, but will not prevent them.

Dragons seem to enjoy soaking in warm water and it may help to assist in hydration, clearing of any impactions..."

I have clarified that a bit in the Sticky & on the original printable version.

 

[Drogo]

Ok, as much as it pains me to remove the sand from Drogo's desert themed domain, I will use something else until he gets large enough for me to use the children's washed play sand. Thanks a lot for all the info!

 

[drgnfly2265]

Hello and welcome

 

[Und3adPrinc3ss]

On the cricket issue, if you do decide to keep live crickets, instead of potatoes I recommend using orange cricket cubes by flukers and bearded dragon pellets(any kind). It's worked very well for me and I have maybe one to three crickets die per day and I get 100 crickets every week(I'm only feeding one beardie).

 

[Aleena]

Ok, as much as it pains me to remove the sand from Drogo's desert themed domain, I will use something else until he gets large enough for me to use the children's washed play sand. Thanks a lot for all the info!

Please do! I have personal experience with this before my first vet visit. My little Gabriel was nearly impacted even though he was a juvenile. If we hadn't removed the calci sand right away and given him daily baths for a week afterward we might not have the little guy any more.

 

[Drogo]

I put paper towels down for now, and this weekend (probably today) I will go pickup the reptile carpet to use instead. Paper towels are a pain because the crickets just crawl under it and it looks like trash.

2 more questions, then I'll post anything else in the appropriate forums...

1.) I have a backdrop on the back panel of my tank. Should I cover the sides as well? I don't know if he would feel less stressed with the sides covered up or if he likes to be able to see more of what's going on around him.

2.) I read you should handle the bearded dragons everyday to get them used to humans. Then recently I read somewhere else that it isn't neccessary to handle them when they're still babies. At what age is it most important to start taking them out to handle them? So far, I've done it every day since I got him but a couple times he has leaped out of my hands. I'm wondering if I should wait until he's a little older?


Thanks!

 

[Germ]

I choose to leave the sides open on my Aquarium type enclosures, I have tried both ways & experienced very little difference. I think it really depends on what is in view, that may be an issue to it.

Every BD is different, some are more receptive to handling right from the start, others not so much & there are the odd few that will never take well to it. Contrary to the common belief that BDs 'Love' to be handled, most would be just as happy to be left alone. Most BDs will learn to 'Tolerate' handling very well, some quite quickly, then again, others not so much or as quickly. Some keepers like to keep their BDs out of the enclosure for hours on end, which is not a good practice because during this time they do not have access to the proper heat & UVB, disrupting the digestive process & Vit D3 development, that in turn allows their body to process their much needed Calcium. Reptiles as a whole, are not really 'Hands On' pets, many like to compare/confuse them with their furry counterparts and/or like to Humanize them & their actions, which simply is not the case. A slow & gentle approach is generally the best way to gain a familiarization to you & learn that you really are not a threat or a predator, to associate you as their food source & a trusted, safe part of their lives. BDs have a severely underdeveloped portion of the brain that governs, among other things, emotion, just about everything they do is a direct result of instinct & survival. Of course, there are always the exceptions in temperament & demeanor.

Thank you for posting future queries in their relevant sections, rather than here in 'Introductions', you will possibly receive more timely responses. Also helps others with similar problems/questions, find some answers more easily when they are posted on topic.

 

[Aleena]

Also it helps if you pick them up from the side in the beginning so you appear as less of a threat. Predators snatch from above, and a lot of times they will panic until they get use to you handling them. Most baby dragons are very squirmy! I haven't met one yet that wasn't sick that would just let you hold them for any length of time. Put them back when they start getting too antsy.

 

[Germ]

I couldn't disagree more on picking up from the sides. BDs should be approached & picked up from the front, sliding the hand underneath, giving full support to the body & as much of the tail as possible. A side, rear or top approach can startle them & picking up by grasping the sides can injure them, if they squirm & in the attempt to contain them, squeeze the ribcage. BDs of any age should not be picked up by grasping them by the sides.

 

[Aleena]

I couldn't disagree more on picking up from the sides. BDs should be approached & picked up from the front, sliding the hand underneath, giving full support to the body & as much of the tail as possible. A side, rear or top approach can startle them & picking up by grasping the sides can injure them, if they squirm & in the attempt to contain them, squeeze the ribcage. BDs of any age should not be picked up by grasping them by the sides.

Okay, I should clarify. I actually pick them up from underneath, from a side approach assuring that they are watching me. I don't pick them up and grasp the sides.