NEW DRAGON OWNER WITH QUESTIONS....

[NavyGal77]

Not sure where this would go. I recently acquired two Breaded Dragon (1 female & 1 male). They are great!! Here is the stuff I have (given by previous owner) they are in a 55 Gal tank, with a sandy bottom and screened top, a UVB light (that I turn on around 6am and turn off at about 930pm), a red heat light (stays on 24/7), a bowl for water and a bowl for food, and some driftwood . I have added two river rocks for them to sit on. According to the previous owner, the Dragons are about 6 and 7 yrs old. They eat crickets every other day with hornworom and pinky mice a treat once a month. Now here is the schedule I would like them to be put on. It will make things easy with work, scouts, (and everyday life with children).

600AM: Light On
645AM: Salad w/greens and another veggie
400PM: Daily treat of a fruit, mealworms, or crickets (alternating days during the week)
(on the weekends I figured this could be the day for treats such as superworms,
hornworm, and pinky mice)
530PM: Play time/Bath Time
600PM: Cuddle time (They seem to like to watch TV with us, or they just want to be still, or
something)
700PM: Back in the cage, getting ready for bed
800PM: Lights out

The temperatures are a followed: On side is about 80F and the other 70F, the heat lamp is 1/4 of the way from the warm side, as not to boil the water or the food.

I have looked online and say all the different veggies that can be eaten by the Dragons, I know they ones that say "good staple" are fine for every day, but the ones that say "occasionally" is this like 1 or 2 times per week, and "rarely" once a month?

What else can I do to make them comfy and keep them healthy? I pride myself on the fact that all my pets (2 cats and 8 fishtanks) and children are taken care of wonderfully and properly. But I get conflicting information on the care of the Bearded Dragons. With the cat and fish, I listened to the advise, tried it (well, the ones that made sense and were not cruel), and looked at the behavior of the animals to gage if it was worth doing over and over again. That was the reason that the previous owner gave us the Dragons, and I don't want to mess this up!

Please excuse the spelling and grammar errors. I am not the best speller! Thank you for any help with this.

Stacy

 

[crypticdragons]

If they are truly a male and female pair its not a good idea for them to be housed together as fighting/breeding will occur. Also, a typical 55 gallon tank has a width of 12 inches internal which is not enough to meet the minimum floor space requirements of an adult dragon at 6 sqft (per dragon minimum). You can build 2 3ft x 2ft x 2 or if you want to give extra space a 4 x 2 x 2 is the best. The basking site at their age should be 95-100 (depending on how they react to the temp). you need a good digital thermometer to be able to accurately get the temps (i personally use a tempgun by proexotics www.tempgun.com). What type of UV bulb do you have? The tube bulb suggested for use with bearded dragons is a ReptiSun 10.0 fluorescent tube. (you will need one for each enclosure and they should be able to get within 10-12 inches of the bulb). For a basking light you need to use a white light (not red). Simple household bulbs work well for this and are cheap and easy to replace. The red bulb can be used if needed at night to keep night temps up if your house drops below 65 at night. I personally do not use the red lights as i feel there is a high possibility of disrupting sleep patterns with these. Your feeding and light time schedule look fine for their age though i highly suggest against the pinky treat as they are high in fat and can be very hard on a dragons system as they are not setup for digesting animal fats and proteins.

Personally i wouldnt do sand as its horrible to upkeep and has a lot more bad that goes with it than good. Slate tile, news paper, or paper towel are fine to use.

oh and Bravo Zulu shipmate for taking these 2 in

 

[lexi]

Hi, Stacy and welcome! Beardies are awesome ;D

Don't take offense (it's nothing personal) but there is a lot wrong with that set up :-\

First off, beardies generally should not be housed together. If they are of that age and have always been together, I am less worried about aggression, but more worried about them breeding, which they will do. Beardies are not social creatures. This is an article that explains it better than I can: http://mybeardie.com/housing-multiple-bearded-dragons.php

Second, the temps are completely wrong for dragons. They need a basking spot (hot side) that is around 105*F, and a cool side that is around 85*F. Beardies have to get their body temps up to around 95*F to digest their food, so the temps need to come up right away. Also, what sort of thermometer are you using to measure the temps? The ones that stick to the side of the cage are not good as they can be off by up to 20 degrees! A probe thermometer or temp gun is better. Measuring accurate temps is absolutely necessary for their survival and good health.

Beardies do well with about 14 hours of light a day. The red night time light is a no-no since they can see it at night and it can disrupt their sleep patterns. A ceramic heat emitter is best (it provides heat with no light) for night time as well as supplementing their heat to get temps up in the day (if necessary). Night time temps for these guys should be around 70*F. If your house is colder than 65*F at night then night time heat is necessary. Otherwise, you can leave it off. They do need to be able to cool down a bit at night (like they would in nature) for optimal health.

Your substrate is sand, and while there are many who use sand as a substrate for adults, the practice is controversial. You will have to weigh the risks and decide for yourself whether you feel sand is an option. If you do decide to use sand as a substrate for your adult beardie, you will want to purchase washed, sifted play sand from a home improvement supply store such as Home Depot in America. You may want to resift the sand yourself once you get it home, to remove any large pebbles that are often present, which could harm your beardie if ingested. Calcium and other pet store sands are not appropriate (and are often much more expensive, to boot).

Problems that have been cited with sand include impaction (which does happen to adult beardies), and the very daunting task of keeping it clean. Unless you are able to completely replace the sand every time your beardie eliminates, there is great potential that bacteria will be left behind. The scoop method generally used is fine for things like a cat litter box, as the cat will urinate or defecate in the box and then leave. A Bearded Dragon lives in the sand in their enclosure. They crawl around on it, lay on it, walk on it and even potentially ingest some of it. Bacteria that is present in the sand always has the potential to harm your dragon, manifesting itself as skin infections, mouth infections, cloaca or vent infections (the area which your dragon uses to defecate) bacterial infections and internal parasites. Sand can also be irritating to their cloaca, which to be quite blunt is comparative to when a human gets 'sand in their crack' at the beach. It isn't comfortable for us, so why would it be for our dragons? There is the additional concern that you have more than one dragon in the enclosure, which means twice the bacteria from twice the poop.

People often ask "but don't they live on sand in the wild?" This isn't necessarily true. The sand which beardies are exposed to most often in their natural environment is a packed, hard type of sand, very different from the loose sand often used in captivity. My personal opinion on sand is that it is an inappropriate substrate for Bearded Dragons, of any age. There are too many risks, too many 'what-if 's and too many better options available. In addition to those concerns, sand is a substrate that has to be continually replaced, and therefor, continually purchased, throughout your dragon's life. I use slate tile, which can easily be washed and disinfected, and never has to be replaced or repurchased unless it breaks. It is not only safer, but more economical as well.

BeautifulDragons.com has a nutrition page which is very helpful in deciding what greens to use and how often. You don't mention supplements, and beardies need a calcium supplement and a multivitamin. I recommend RepCal for both. You don't mention what your UVB source is, or the last time it was replaced. They do wear out, and even if the light is still on it may not be providing UVB if it's older than 6-8 months. UVB is essential to bearded dragons as they use it to metabolize calcium. Without it, they can get very, very ill (or even die) and it isn't pretty. Let us know what brand UVB you have and we can let you know which direction to go. For tube UVB's, the ReptiSUN 10.0 is best. If you're unsure how long it's been since it was replaced, it's probably time to do so.

The protein you're feeding is good, except for the pinkie mice. They have a good deal of fat and can contribute to fatty liver disease in dragons. I'd forgo the pinkies from now on and try some roaches. Dragons really like them and they can be used as a staple feeder. They're also easier to breed than crickets. Most reptile shops have them or you can order them from theroachguy.com

I hope that helps! I know it's a lot to take in but it's all very important for them to be healthy. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask! There's a lot of knowledgeable people here and we don't bite!

 

[zebraflavencs]

Hi and welcome ! we needed some more salt on this forum *grins*.

Now Brian addressed several things, allow me to offer you a wonderful list to help you choose the best diet for these darlings.
http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html

It's got a handy color code so you can choose staples, as well as treats, and why these are regarded thusly.

I can't wait to see these two ! Pictures are a must !
Oh, and depending on where you are stationed/live, I can help you establish a great feeder staple for these two..
Welcome again !
Janie

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Im not adding anything but Hello, and welcome to your new addiction.

 

[NavyGal77]

Thank you all for the information. I will have to get the type of lighting and the other information when I get home tonight. I have had the two dragons since Saturday. I guess you can say it was an impulse buy. As when i saw them I feel in love with them. They are sooo cute! The two of them been living together for a few years (from the previous owner). But I will be looking into new enclosures for them, that will fit them better. Although, a lot of your recommendations to better care for them will have to wait till the 1st (payday and all). Everything I have for them came from the previous owner, so I am not sure how long ago everything was replaced. I will cut out the pinky mice from their diets completely. I think that it is on the cruel side to feed live animals to other animals that don't need it for survival anyways. Seeing how everyone is on a budget, what would be the most inportian things to get next week and what can wait till the 15th? I wish that i could get everything at once, but I can't. I will post their pictures tonight also. That colored coded chart of food, is what I based my feeding/salads off of. I think that it was great and so easy to use!
For the record I am in MI but have plans to be in VA soon!

 

[ladyknite]

welcome
you're most important purchase will be the UVB lighting and you can use basic household bulbs for heat.

Although the recommendations above are pretty standard, not all of them apply to dragons of this age. However, being fairly sure of that age is important.
If you wish to make the substrate changes, you can experiment with the various materials. It's possible however that 7 year old dragons (animals that do not like change) will not adapt. When using sand as your substrate, it's very important that your temps be kept high enough to promote proper digestion (105-115).

 

[zebraflavencs]

agreed.
Va huh.. Oh I can help you out a bit..

For your uvb, depending on how you house these two in the future, you have choices.

ReptiSun 10.0 tube is great! change out every 6 months, and have the fixture handing/attached 6-8" distance from the dragons basking site. You will want at least 1/2 to 2/3rds the length of enclosure covered by uvb. These are great tubes for smaller enclosures..
Mega Ray MVB(mercury vapor bulbs) is top for larger enclosures, like the 4 x 2 x 2 that Brian mentioned.. I specifically built 3 of the 4 enclosures holding dragons with the Mega in mind.. These are situated 13-16" away and provide not only heat, but uvb as well.

For the reptisun 10.o tube, there is a shop here on Mybeardie that carries them.. they are affiliated with a larger company that most of us shop from..

They also carry the Rep-cal calcium (offer 2 times a week) and the Herptivite (1-2 times a week).

Oh, remember that staple feeder I spoke of earlier ? dubia roaches.. No these aren't the kind you call Mr. Orkin in to remove.. These are S.American species that don't find the states ideal as habitat. Give theroachguy.com a looksee.. If you feel this is something you would be comfortable raising.. just send me a message.. I'll be delighted to help you get a safe set up.


Hope this helps out ! welcome aboard Matey !
Janie

 

[crypticdragons]

Yep first things first is appropriate UV lighting and appropriate living spaces
The bulb you need for UV can be purchased rather cheap at petmountain.com (remember is the reptisun 10.0 tube) and you can get a rather cheap fluorescent fixture at lowes, home depot, or walmart to mount it in.

As for tanks. You have a few options. Find 2 40 gallon breeder tanks (or something of similar size) for cheap used on craigslist (may take a while), build somthing yourself, or you can purchase some prebuilt tanks. My tanks came from boamasters.com but they are slightly expensive. Rich Beasley sells rather cheap pre cut PVC tanks (assembly required) here is the link http://richbeasley.com/catalog/

You getting assigned to VA? Bethesda Quantico Oceana?

 

[renich]

Hello and welcome to the forum! Wow, they are quite mature dragons at 6 and 7. I wonder if they have been housed together their entire lives? I'm not sure how well you know the previous owner, but as pointed out, a male and female housed together will lead to mating. If you are not prepared to deal with eggs and hatchlings, I'd look into separating ASAP, if your female is not already pregnant.

Here is a link to our basic caresheet. Give it a read and let us know if you have any questions. It goes over the basics - lighting, substrate, food, temps, furniture....
Bearded Dragon Care

 

[NavyGal77]

Thank you all for your advise and links to the information pages. Here is more information that I have found out about the pair.

They have been together in the same tank for little over 5 years. The UVB light is a ReptGlo 8.0 and was last changed 2 moths ago. I will purchase the lighting that you all suggested for them in the next 2 months. I took the sand out and used shredded paper towels, but the the poor dragons would not leave their spot on the driftwood. They would not even come down for crickets. So after two days, I put the sand back in the tank. I know (with all that I have read and what you all have said) its not great for them, but I want to see them happy and eating. It there something else that is out there with the sand like quality that is good for them?

Right now the biggest problem with them is my daughter want to hold and kiss them all the time. She can hold one at a time but ONLY with adult supervision and we have to keep telling her not to kiss them. She is 19 months old!

Only after 2 week, they are a big part of the family and fit in with the rest of my zoo!!!

Thank you all again for your help and advise!

Stacy

 

[zebraflavencs]

The only thing I would change is the lighting... you will want a reptiSun 10.0.
Adults can be on sand. Just be aware you will want to replace the sand, and do a deep cleaning on a monthly basis, along with daily cleaning.
Hope this helps !
Janie

 

[renich]

Yep, I agree with Janie. Sand can work, but it must be maintained. You'll also need to pick up the poopies as soon as it happens along with any sand in the pooped area. This will help lower the bacteria that can form

I guess the only other suggestion that I can offer is to try to make the 'sand' that is native to beardies. It's more of a clay. I have never made this, but others on the forum have. Perhaps they can help us out.

 

[Red Ink AUS]

I guess the only other suggestion that I can offer is to try to make the 'sand' that is native to beardies. It's more of a clay. I have never made this, but others on the forum have. Perhaps they can help us out.

Sand mix
30% excavator clay, 60% washed playsand, 10% loam.

Enclosure Flooring
1/3 Tile enclosure
1/4 sand/clay mix

Equals one happy dragon

Native Terra

Cheers,

 

[renich]

Thanks, Francis!

 

[egg 80]

+1 for red ink aus, i havent any spare stuff to show how i do it but seems pics have posted by francis yeh my enclosure is very similar to the pics well without the dried grass. 1 side is the side with the slate tile and slate rocks and the other side is where ii use reptileclay which i mix approx 30% kiln dried into which will be deeper one side to the other so the beardies can dig their own hidy holes in the clay ther also is some sandstone rocks various shapes and sizes and on top of the clay is a dusting of baked play sand probably about 10-15% and vrious fake plant vines lying around

paul