Help trying to get bearded dragon tank situated

[jfurnas]

Hello! First time poster, but glad I came across this forum. My son is the owner of a juvenile to adult bearded dragon (We are not 100% sure on the age. We got him in July of last year from a pet store so we are not entirely sure on the age). About 4 months ago we upgraded him to a 40 gallon tank with a screen top. We have been having issues trying to keep him at adequate temperature since and looking for some advice.

We are using a digital thermometer hydrometer (actually, two, one on each side of the enclosure) combo as well as a 75 watt we picked up at walmart. (This one says 60, but we have the 75 watt one)

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Aqua-Cul...tent=In-store&athbdg=L1600&from=searchResults

We have it placed on one side of his tank, directly below his hideaway/log he likes to sit on. When that bulb is on during the day, the thermometer near it always only reads between 81-95. We added a heat emitter next to the bulb for some additional heat, but it doesn't appear to change the thermometer reading at all:

Aqua Culture Ceramic Heat Emitter, Non-Light, 100 Watts - Walmart.com

Tomorrow Buy Aqua Culture Ceramic Heat Emitter, Non-Light, 100 Watts at Walmart.com

www.walmart.com

Recently, I picked up a 'daylight bulb' from Walmart that was 75 watt as well, and running that long with the other 75 watt bulb made it like 120, and he stopped going over to that side of the tank.

Aqua Culture Daylight Bulb Incandescent Reptile Lighting, 75 Watt - Walmart.com

Tomorrow Buy Aqua Culture Daylight Bulb Incandescent Reptile Lighting, 75 Watt at Walmart.com

www.walmart.com

As for his UV light, we used to have this one next to his heat lamp:

Aqua Culture Compact Fluorescent Bult for Reptiles, 13-Watt - Walmart.com

Tomorrow Buy Aqua Culture Compact Fluorescent Bult for Reptiles, 13-Watt at Walmart.com

www.walmart.com

But we recently switched to using this one, which is centered on the top of his screen top:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00780X1O2?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

We also picked this up to put on the 'cold side' of his tank, in hopes he would use it at night time to keep warm, but we don't have it on right now because it puts the cold side up to over 90 at night time.

Amazon.com

The second thermometer/hydrometer came with the heat pad, and we have it buried under the substrate (its a sand material) on the side of the tank the heat pad is on so we can check the temperatures of the heat pad and that side of the tank. Before the sand material we had a rubberized reptile mat from PetSmart that looked like a desert bed.

As far as the beardie himself, he came out of a very short brumation a couple of weeks ago (he was only in brumation for about 2 weeks), and since he's been out he hasn't been as active as he was before he went in. He still eats, but not as much as he did before he went in, and many days we'll see him just sitting in the corner by his heater, laying flat out burying himself in the sand almost as if he's trying to brumate again.

He's still active when he's out, and if you take him out he walks around all over, but when he's in his cage, he shows these signs. My son is concerned something is wrong, and although I don't believe there is, I am trying to see if we just don't have his tank set up correctly. I can attach some photos of his current enclosure shortly, as soon as they finish uploading.

For his diet, up until his brumation we were feeding him 2-3 superworms each meal time, 2-3 times a day. Since he's been out of brumation we are starting to move him away from worms and put him on a greens diet, but he doesn't particularly like eating greens so we're having troubles getting him to eat anything but the worms.

 

[jfurnas]

Below is a photo of his current setup. Of the two lights, only the one in the front is currently on. The second one is off as it was making it too hot on that side.

 

[Sadie]

Below is a photo of his current setup. Of the two lights, only the one in the front is currently on. The second one is off as it was making it too hot on that side.

The analog thermometers are only good for ambient temps - please get 2 of these https://www.chewy.com/zoo-med-digit...3095&msclkid=7b97fc091b471757c23b98405df36633 Petco or Petsmart carry them -- these are going to tell you the actual surface basking temp--- for him he needs temps 95-100 -- next please get rid of the coil UVB they are inadequate and will cause all kinds of health issues -- you need one of the 3 I am gonna post for you and do this asap -- as of now hes getting NO UVB -- you want a 24" fixture for the 40 + gallon tank of which I recommend you upgrade to a 120 gallon 4x2x2 tank here soon - that is the appropriate size for a adult dragon
24" comes w/ a 5.0 bulb you will need this bulb I will post it as well

Zoo Med ReptiSun T5 HO Hood

Efficient and sleek t5 UVB light fixture for reptiles terrariums and more! Order your lighting and supplies today from Pangea Reptile.

www.pangeareptile.com

22" https://www.petmountain.com/product/zoo-med-reptisun-t5-ho-100-uvb-high-output-bulbs?variant=40630
this one can be found at Pet Smart - you want the 24 watt w/ the 12% bulb

https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/environmental-control-and-lighting/light-fixtures/arcadia-reptile-prot5-uv-b-kit-65058.html?cgid=500114&fmethod=Browse

or this one you will need to get the Reptisun bulb I posted above and a 2 ft or 24" fixture

SunBlaster NanoTech T5 HO - Fluorescent Fixture with 6400K Lamp

Buy the SunBlaster NanoTech T5 HO - Fluorescent Fixture with 6400K Lamp at Hydrobuilder.com. Shop the entire line of SunBlaster products along with thousands of hydroponics supplies on sale now.

hydrobuilder.com

when you get the UVB please post back on here I will help you place it for your tank the screen on the tank will determine where it goes
Your son is right the dragon is not getting the UVB he needs and the coil needs to be replaced immediately-- he needs salads every day http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html ignore the kale info it is outdated - please stop w/ the super worms and get him a staple insect I recommend dubia roaches www.dubiaroaches.com they should be dusted w/ calcium D3 5 x per week ONCE per feeding lighting coated -- vitamins w / beta carotene 2 x per week ONCE per feeding lightly coated --- the substrate is not good for babies they run the risk for impaction and if not getting the proper supplements they will eat it
Dragons will not eat w/ out correct UVB and correct surface basking temps --- please get this fixed as soon as you can your dragon is getting sick - he may not show it but the lack of appetite will tell you
I would look at replacing the sand in the tank w/ some textured NON adhesive shelf liner from Walmart your local home improvement store cut to the size of the tank clean w/ vinegar / water 50-50 wipe down w/ a clean wet dish cloth --- please get rid of the heat matt dragons heat from their backs not stomachs --- please do NOT listen to the Pet Smart people they do not know a thing about dragons -----'your digital probe thermometers are going to tell you what wattage you need for the surface basking temps --- you want 3 temps in the tank surface basking temps 95-100 -- middle of the tank 90's and cool side 80's during the day --- NO lights on at night and ambient temps 65-75

 

[jfurnas]

I think some of my previous post might have been confusing. I was trying to outline what I had previously versus what I have now in the same post so it may have been confusing.

I am using TWO digital thermometers, like the ones you pictured (just a different brand) with a long wire and receiver on the end of each one. One is attached to the side of the tank near the light via a suction cup, the other is buried under the substrate on the heat pad side to get a reading of that side of the tank.

As for the UVB bulb, I am no longer using the coil one, and haven't used one for a while. I linked the one I am currently using, which is an 18" fluorescent UVB bulb, this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00780X1O2?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

It's listed as a T8 bulb (not at T10 one) like the one you pictured, but is otherwise very similar. It's advertised as a 25 watt T8 UVB fluorescent bulb.

As for the heat pad, that isn't operational normally. I bought it solely for the purpose of keeping the tank somewhat warm in the winter months, when the heat in his tank can drop below 60 overnight. Not to heat him from the underside, but to bring the ambient temperature on that side (where he usually sleeps) up to above 60. (Which it does).

As for his diet, we have already planned for switching him off worms. He has just been used to eating them up to this point so he's having a difficult time with wanting to eat anything else. He's never had a liking to greens even when only feeding him in moderation so it's going to take a while to get him used to eating mostly greens.
As for his stools, he's still going regularly, about every two days or so, so nothing really has changed much there.

Most of his inactiveness is when he's in his tank, as when he's out spending time with us he's running around fine etc.
I have attached a drawing I made of the top of his tank and where the lights are positioned. I am not at home right now so can't take photos.

This image would be if you were standing in front of it, looking directly down at it.

 

[Sadie]

I think some of my previous post might have been confusing. I was trying to outline what I had previously versus what I have now in the same post so it may have been confusing.

I am using TWO digital thermometers, like the ones you pictured (just a different brand) with a long wire and receiver on the end of each one. One is attached to the side of the tank near the light via a suction cup, the other is buried under the substrate on the heat pad side to get a reading of that side of the tank.

As for the UVB bulb, I am no longer using the coil one, and haven't used one for a while. I linked the one I am currently using, which is an 18" fluorescent UVB bulb, this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00780X1O2?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

It's listed as a T8 bulb (not at T10 one) like the one you pictured, but is otherwise very similar. It's advertised as a 25 watt T8 UVB fluorescent bulb.

As for the heat pad, that isn't operational normally. I bought it solely for the purpose of keeping the tank somewhat warm in the winter months, when the heat in his tank can drop below 60 overnight. Not to heat him from the underside, but to bring the ambient temperature on that side (where he usually sleeps) up to above 60. (Which it does).

As for his diet, we have already planned for switching him off worms. He has just been used to eating them up to this point so he's having a difficult time with wanting to eat anything else. He's never had a liking to greens even when only feeding him in moderation so it's going to take a while to get him used to eating mostly greens.
As for his stools, he's still going regularly, about every two days or so, so nothing really has changed much there.

Most of his inactiveness is when he's in his tank, as when he's out spending time with us he's running around fine etc.
I have attached a drawing I made of the top of his tank and where the lights are positioned. I am not at home right now so can't take photos.

This image would be if you were standing in front of it, looking directly down at it.

Ok the T 8 needs to be unobstructed NO screen - they cannot go thru screen -distance 6-8 inches directly over the basking decor piece please -- -- I would recommend getting a Reptisun 10.0 T 8 it is a way better quality bulb found at Pet Smart or Petco --- and I still recommend getting the T 5 I posted in my earlier post --- it is going to be difficult to get him to eat greens as you are finding out --- were or are you feeding anything else? Basically hes been been getting candy to eat -- you want ambient temps in the tank 65-75 at night - a CHE will do that -- I also still recommend getting him a bigger tank --- I can post links for tanks --- he needs the staple insect now 2-3 times per week-- a good lure to the salad bowl are BSFL -- they are a larvae and another staple feeder a good compliment to dubia roaches - you will need a bowl similar to this they make great salad bowls
https://www.amazon.com/MACGOAL-Rept...uGQB&pd_rd_wg=tLkwE&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_d
Please place the probe thermometer on the place he sits for basking thats going to give the the actual surface basking temp 10 min or so

 

[jfurnas]

Thank you for your reply. I am going to stop at PetSmart after work and see if they have any of the higher quality T8 bulbs. I will look at getting him the larger T5 light and bulb at some point. I am going to have to figure out how to re-arrange the lights. Currently, his basking decor is the large log in the photo I provided earlier, and the heat light is directly above it so I don't have room for the UV bulb.

I have a very similar bowl that we feed him out of occassionally, but right now he's just been eating directly off the tongs. We have tried various fruits like blueberries and strawberries but only in moderation as I think there's too much sugar and etc in them for him. We have tried Kale but he doesn't seem to like it. His main diet up to this point has been super worms though, sprinkled with a calcium powder before we tweezer feed them. Before that, he was eating medium to large crickets but over winter it got extremely hard to find them around here and when we did they died quickly because of the temperature.

What do you recommend to help him wean away from worms and eat more greens?I am not sure what a BSFL is that you mentioned but I am familiar with dubai roaches. It's unfortunate the pet stores around me don't sell them and I'm concerned with them staying alive buying them in bulk.

 

[Sadie]

Thank you for your reply. I am going to stop at PetSmart after work and see if they have any of the higher quality T8 bulbs. I will look at getting him the larger T5 light and bulb at some point. I am going to have to figure out how to re-arrange the lights. Currently, his basking decor is the large log in the photo I provided earlier, and the heat light is directly above it so I don't have room for the UV bulb.

I have a very similar bowl that we feed him out of occassionally, but right now he's just been eating directly off the tongs. We have tried various fruits like blueberries and strawberries but only in moderation as I think there's too much sugar and etc in them for him. We have tried Kale but he doesn't seem to like it. His main diet up to this point has been super worms though, sprinkled with a calcium powder before we tweezer feed them. Before that, he was eating medium to large crickets but over winter it got extremely hard to find them around here and when we did they died quickly because of the temperature.

What do you recommend to help him wean away from worms and eat more greens?I am not sure what a BSFL is that you mentioned but I am familiar with dubai roaches. It's unfortunate the pet stores around me don't sell them and I'm concerned with them staying alive buying them in bulk.

So the UVB does not need to be directly by the basking bulb - you can set up another piece of basking decor under it w/ the distance of 6-8 inches- he is going to go to the light he needs -- he needs that UVB to absorb/ synthesize the calcium hes eating ---
Getting the BSFL www.symptonbsf.com order large and drop them on the bowl in front of him on the salads first thing in the morning --- cut back on the super worms - he wont starve himself -
Please start getting your insects on line they are cheaper and more reliable than pet stores
I am going to post websites for worms insects etc----
www.dubiaroaches.com I am thinking your dragon can eat large dubias - please set up a 10 gallon aquarium get some dubia food along w/ dubia crystals for hydration - you can feed them fruit like oranges - grapes - cantalope etc - they arent hot on greens - they will eat squash all kinds raw shredded sweet potato - carrots do not feed the dragon carrots too to much Vit A -- you will get orange urate -- on this website BSFL are called nutri grubs they will come in dirt keep them in that - you might need to rinse them off - symtonbsf has the best BSFL
https://flukerfarms.com/black-soldier-fly-larvae-soldier-worms/
I just got a shipment of 100 super worms and 12 hornworms nice worms - the horn worms will come in a cup w/ food keep them up by your basking light for warmth and so they can grow if they are small -- they will get big and grow pretty fast - the super worms come in a tube you will need containers w/ lids w/ holes meal worm food and use carrots or potato for hydration - you can still feed them to him just not every day - maybe every 2-3 days since you want him to start eating other things now - 1-2 -- I have not gotten any BSFL for a long time my two wont eat them anymore --
www.abdragons.com --
https://reptilianarts.com/ these people have nice silk worms another staple feeder and they stick to everything - you can use those in the salads as well as the horn worms - I use two of the horn worms in the salads as they stick to everything as well - he will probably go nuts over the horn worms most do they are a good hydration worm --- how is your dragon getting water if not eating salads ? that is how most get the hydration they need --
please look at the nutrition website I posted for you -- it will give you ideas of what to feed how often and what not to feed --- its going to be trial and error of the beardies taste but we want him to start eating salads and start dusting the insects as well w/ the exception of the BSFL those are calcium enriched -- I would try small amounts of each of those insects to see what he goes for --- crickets are are dirty feeder they stink and chirp and are escape artist - roaches are easier to keep along w/ the other insects I posted as well -- if the super worms turn to beetles feed them if the BSFL turn to flies feed them --

 

[jfurnas]

Thanks again for the info. I adjusted his basking platform a bit when I got home from work. Is this too close to the light for him? He jumped right up on top of it. The temperature sensor is to the left (our left) of him and it's currently reading 110.

 

[Sadie]

Thanks again for the info. I adjusted his basking platform a bit when I got home from work. Is this too close to the light for him? He jumped right up on top of it. The temperature sensor is to the left (our left) of him and it's currently reading 110.

Basking lights should be no closer than 6 inches- was the probe sitting on that log under the bulb? 110 is too warm for a 6 months or older dragon - 95-100-

 

[jfurnas]

Basking lights should be no closer than 6 inches- was the probe sitting on that log under the bulb? 110 is too warm for a 6 months or older dragon - 95-100-

Yeah it's on the log you can sort of see it to the left of him. You can barely make out the suction cup. I originally had the light sitting outside the tank, on top of the screen, but it seemed like it was losing too much heat at that point as it was like 10" away from the basking platform and the temp was reading like 80 something. That was before I put the thermometer right on the log though and instead was just on the wall at the back of the tank.

To answer your question from earlier about hydration, we leave a medium size bowl filled with water in it in his tank. We see him drink from it occasionally but we have to fill it every other day or so so either it's evaporating super fast or he's drinking lots of water. Plus when we bathe him.

 

[jfurnas]

I put it back outside on top of the screen lid. So far it's reading about 102. It seems like it's back to where it was before now though but the thermometer is closer so likely more accurate now.

I'm trying to find the best way to attach the uvb bulb now. It's in a square enclosure so maybe I can use some wire to fasten it. There was also a clear plastic cover on it that I took off so now the bulb is exposed to air completely now.

 

[Sadie]

I put it back outside on top of the screen lid. So far it's reading about 102. It seems like it's back to where it was before now though but the thermometer is closer so likely more accurate now.

I'm trying to find the best way to attach the uvb bulb now. It's in a square enclosure so maybe I can use some wire to fasten it. There was also a clear plastic cover on it that I took off so now the bulb is exposed to air completely now.

If you haft to adjust the screen like pull it forward so it's unobstructed or I can post things to hang w/ it's up to you -- watch his poop/ urate it should be formed dark moist urate white formed and moist- if it's dry and chalky he's dehydrated

 

[jfurnas]

I think I got it figured out. Although now the light appears to be too far away from his basking area again as it's dropped down to 92 degrees after sitting for a while. This is the issue I've been having with trying to keep his tank optimal. I couldn't imagine it would be any easier with a larger tank as it would be further away from the light source.

 

[Sadie]

I think I got it figured out. Although now the light appears to be too far away from his basking area again as it's dropped down to 92 degrees after sitting for a while. This is the issue I've been having with trying to keep his tank optimal. I couldn't imagine it would be any easier with a larger tank as it would be further away from the light source.

Which light? The UVB should be 6-8 inches directly over a piece of decor -- get that adjusted -- then work w/ the basking bulb - if the temp is not getting high enough and its on the screen go to a 100 watt - it will be trial and error w/ basking bulbs -- it will be the same w/ a 120 gallon tank -- I am posting a pic of one of my tanks
if you have questions please ask this is a Zen Habitat tank

 

[jfurnas]

Sorry the basking bulb. On the screen it's about 92 right now.

I only have one piece of decor right now so I'll have to see about getting another one so I can place the uvb bulb directly over it. I always thought they would bask and soak up the uv in the same area.

I do have a wicker hammock we used to have in there but he kept hiding under it so we took it out.

 

[jfurnas]

What are the three different lights you have ? Are they all heat lights? It looks like two smaller ones and a larger round one behind your uvb bulb.

 

[Sadie]

What are the three different lights you have ? Are they all heat lights? It looks like two smaller ones and a larger round one behind your uvb bulb.

I have 3 basking lights two on the hot side -- ambient temps there are 100 surface basking temps range from 95 -102 depending on where he sits on the basking log - middle one behind the UVB is a basking light keeps temps in the 90's --- summer is coming so the big round one in back will go to a 100 watt -- winter its 150 one in front is a 75 watt -- and the one behind the UVB is a 75 watt --

 

[Sadie]

Sorry the basking bulb. On the screen it's about 92 right now.

I only have one piece of decor right now so I'll have to see about getting another one so I can place the uvb bulb directly over it. I always thought they would bask and soak up the uv in the same area.

I do have a wicker hammock we used to have in there but he kept hiding under it so we took it out.

ok so get your surface basking temp up to 95-100-- it is optimal to have them all together for basking but sometimes its not feasible-- you can always set up another basking area like I did w/ mine but you want that UVB corrected - he needs it -- then work on the basking temps -- the wicker hammock I would not use -- they tend to get their nails stuck in it causing injury have seen alot of that - if you want a hammock get a fleece one or a cloth one
www.etsy.com
www.pamperedbeardies.com