Help Needed From Owners (For Research)

[beardieboo]

Hi guys,

I’m conducting some research for some work I’m doing on bearded dragons and I would really appreciate the help of as many owners as possible.

I’m researching what is the average age bearded dragons live to in captivity.

This is extremely important as a lot of information available at the moment is thought to be inaccurate and if we can collect real-world data from real owners we can have a better understanding.

If anybody has owned a beardie in the past that has sadly passed away I would really appreciate it if you could:
A: State the age they sadly passed away
B: State the reasons, for example, old age or what illness etc.

I understand that this might be upsetting for some owners, so please only reply if you feel comfortable doing so.

Your input will be extremely valuable and will help to provide accurate data to how long beardies really live in captivity, rather than a lot of guesswork that isn’t backed up by any real-world data.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[BeardedDragonDude]

Mines still here, but I know people who have had them pass at... may I ask, what is this research you are doing?

 

[beardieboo]

Mines still here, but I know people who have had them pass at... may I ask, what is this research you are doing?

Hi friend, Glad to see your beardie is still going strong, (always great to hear) the research is potentialyl for a book in the future but at the very least for the web so people can see real data. (no personal details will be listed, just numbers)

I've been fact-checking a number of authoritative sources and they all have differing opinions of how long beardies live in captivity by some way. I think the best think to do is collect real data.

I hope to do this for a number of other big questions too as I think it will be very interesting see the results.

Thanks for showing interest.

 

[BeardedDragonDude]

Hi friend, Glad to see your beardie is still going strong, (always great to hear) the research is potentialyl for a book in the future but at the very least for the web so people can see real data. (no personal details will be listed, just numbers)

I've been fact-checking a number of authoritative sources and they all have differing opinions of how long beardies live in captivity by some way. I think the best think to do is collect real data.

I hope to do this for a number of other big questions too as I think it will be very interesting see the results.

Thanks for showing interest.

Just wanted to make sure.
So, are you crediting people in your book, or no?
Many people could get angry at you about that if not.

IMO a beardie usually lives around 6-8, maybe 10 years.
Not much more than that.

 

[beardieboo]

Just wanted to make sure.
So, are you crediting people in your book, or no?
Many people could get angry at you about that if not.

IMO a beardie usually lives around 6-8, maybe 10 years.
Not much more than that.

In total there could be over 10,000 pieces of data used form as many different owners, so crediting everybody would be impossible.

it's about getting as much data as possible and trying to help future owners.

 

[BeardedDragonDude]

In total there could be over 10,000 pieces of data used form as many different owners, so crediting everybody would be impossible.

it's about getting as much data as possible and trying to help future owners.

Okay, so you're an owner yourself, I'm presuming?
The reason I ask so many questions is that you join today, say you need info, but don't say if you even own a BD, or anything else.
Nothing against you, but that does seem pretty shady.

 

[beardieboo]

I'm really sorry if signing up to a new forum and asking for some data that can help the community looks shady. We must have a different way of looking at things (but that's fine) all the best and thanks for your input.

 

[BeardedDragonDude]

I'm really sorry if signing up to a new forum and asking for some data that can help the community looks shady. We must have a different way of looking at things (but that's fine) all the best and thanks for your input.

We most likely don't have a different look on things.

I implore you to make this book/organize this data as much as you can, as long as it's correct.
And, you came to the best place to find the best truest data, so for that, you did great.

What does kinda get weird and "shady" is the fact you came on here and said nothing about yourself, asked for info for some mystery "work", and never said or specified that you owned a Bearded Dragon.

Not to make you feel unwelcome by any means, and I'm glad you came here instead of the garbage that pet stores tell you, but it can set off some red flags when you do that.

I've seen scammers before, and most of the time they start off saying what you did.
Do I believe you're a scammer? No, not at all.
I do believe you're trying to get good data and help, which is great, especially to help new members.

But, still, to this very moment, you have not mentioned if you own a Bearded Dragon or not.
And until you own one, not a thing anyone says should be written down by someone who doesn't own one.
It's just too sketchy. (Plus, could spread misinformation.)
I think you own one, but I'm still not sure.

I mean, that's like someone writing a car manual that hasn't ever owned or worked with a car before.
So, why would I give out info to a piece of "work" that I don't know about? (Or don't know what your background is? With BDS.)

All I will say is your first message was a bit vague, and next time you ask about it, maybe you should classify what you're "work" is and your background with Bearded Dragons. (Or anything, for that matter.)

Thanks,
BDD

 

[Beardomania]

@BeardedDragonDude I don't think that's shady at all. What kind of scam could someone pull asking people how long their pet lived? I think it's kinda weird that you got defensive and asked many times whether this person owns a beardie as if it's a crime to go asking an innocent question if he currently doesn't. You're not required to write an autobiography here just to ask a question. We all wanna learn and there's no better place to learn from than somewhere with lots of experienced people for first hand knowledge. It's a bit much to ask to be credited in a book for just telling someone how long your pet lizard lived. However, if you had compiled data that was useful as a set, that might be on the table.

@beardieboo Asking many people for how long their lizard lived might not be the best way because that could take many many entries with beardies all kept under different conditions, some with incorrect age information if it was not properly divulged at purchase or adoption. You're better off seeking large time breeders who have decades of experience to tell you their data. @cliffhangerreptiles may be able to tell you some info; I believe he's also a PhD in herpetology.

 

[BeardedDragonDude]

@BeardedDragonDude I don't think that's shady at all. What kind of scam could someone pull asking people how long their pet lived? I think it's kinda weird that you got defensive and asked many times whether this person owns a beardie as if it's a crime to go asking an innocent question if he currently doesn't. You're not required to write an autobiography here just to ask a question. We all wanna learn and there's no better place to learn from than somewhere with lots of experienced people for first hand knowledge. It's a bit much to ask to be credited in a book for just telling someone how long your pet lizard lived. However, if you had compiled data that was useful as a set, that might be on the table.

@beardieboo Asking many people for how long their lizard lived might not be the best way because that could take many many entries with beardies all kept under different conditions, some with incorrect age information if it was not properly divulged at purchase or adoption. You're better off seeking large time breeders who have decades of experience to tell you their data. @cliffhangerreptiles may be able to tell you some info; I believe he's also a PhD in herpetology.

Yes, I see where you're coming from, but:

That was not what I was asking.
See the message above yours.

My problem is not with him asking the question, that I have absolutely no problem with.
The problem I had is with his "work"
It very well may be great work, but he could have said that he was making a book on BDs and I would've given him an answer, and we both would've been on our merry way.
Now, I might have asked him if he owned a BD, which he most likely would've given me a prompt answer as he has done, and that would've settled it.

But the term "work" and the amount of vagueness behind it is what I was wondering about.
As I said, a person that's never owned a car or worked on one shouldn't be creating a car manual.
The same thing goes for BDs.

I've met people wanting to put stuff together for BDs and they had never owned one.
That is what I was asking about.

Thanks,
BDD

 

[BeardedDragonDude]

Also, I could care less about being credited, that was mainly because he asked as if he had already asked a ton of info, (Which he probably has.) and I know some people could get angry about having their work and their writings taken and put into a book without any credit.
Me saying how long a BD lived is worthless in itself, and definitely does not deserve any credit.
As you said, if I put together a large list, that would be worth it, but I did not.

 

[Beardomania]

Yes, I see where you're coming from, but:

That was not what I was asking.
See the message above yours.

My problem is not with him asking the question, that I have absolutely no problem with.
The problem I had is with his "work"
It very well may be great work, but he could have said that he was making a book on BDs and I would've given him an answer, and we both would've been on our merry way.
Now, I might have asked him if he owned a BD, which he most likely would've given me a prompt answer as he has done, and that would've settled it.

But the term "work" and the amount of vagueness behind it is what I was wondering about.
As I said, a person that's never owned a car or worked on one shouldn't be creating a car manual.
The same thing goes for BDs.

I've met people wanting to put stuff together for BDs and they had never owned one.
That is what I was asking about.

Thanks,
BDD

First of all, repeatedly grilling someone on whether he has a beardie because you've seen "scammers" operate makes no sense. Anybody can tell you he has a beardie. Most people who own a beardie have no business writing a book. And some people who have studied Pogona extensively through peer-reviewed scientific literature and possibly even did primary research on them in the Australian wilderness could write a book on them without any need to have one held captive in a tank next to him.

You can politely tell someone that in your opinion, only the most experienced owners should write a book, but bringing up being credited, scams, how he hasn't introduced himself enough, and calling someone sketchy/shady for asking a (rather common) question while thinking about the potential of a book is unusually defensive behavior.

 

[BeardedDragonDude]

First of all, repeatedly grilling someone on whether he has a beardie because you've seen "scammers" operate makes no sense. Anybody can tell you he has a beardie. Most people who own a beardie have no business writing a book. And some people who have studied Pogona extensively through peer-reviewed literature and possibly even did primary research on them in the Australian wilderness could write a book on them without any need to have one held captive in a tank next to him.

You can politely tell someone that in your opinion, only the most experienced owners should write a book, but bringing up being credited, scams, how he hasn't introduced himself enough, and calling someone sketchy/shady for asking a (rather common) question while thinking about the potential of a book is unusually defensive behavior.

I never said he was a scammer, I said I've seen stuff like that happen before.
I do not believe he is a scammer, especially after his last answer.

Maybe me saying that was the wrong wording, but it is different.

I do not believe in any way I have been impolite/idiotic, but if I have I'm sorry.

As for introducing himself enough, that is one I thoroughly believe in, most forums I know of have said that you should make your Introduction before posting anything, something this forum probably has, but I will have to check.
I did not do that, but then again, I did not come one here asking questions for some mystery "work"
Now that I know what that work is, I have no problem with it.

I have no quarrel with anyone here, but I will say my mind.

Thanks,
BDD

 

[BeardedDragonDude]

Plus, I wasn't grilling him over and over again saying that he was a scammer, I was saying in a polite way ('Cause that seems to be a big deal to you.) that I've seen it before, and that he might want to word it better next time.

So far, the one that has been "impolite" has been you.

I mean, take this for example.

"All I will say is your first message was a bit vague, and next time you ask about it, maybe you should classify what you're "work" is and your background with Bearded Dragons. (Or anything, for that matter.)"

Quote from post #8

I don't believe I said much in that post that could be taken as impolite.
Just me making my statement.

Thanks,
BDD

 

[Beardomania]

Plus, I wasn't grilling him over and over again saying that he was a scammer, I was saying in a polite way ('Cause that seems to be a big deal to you.) that I've seen it before, and that he might want to word it better next time.

So far, the one that has been "impolite" has been you.

I mean, take this for example.

"All I will say is your first message was a bit vague, and next time you ask about it, maybe you should classify what you're "work" is and your background with Bearded Dragons. (Or anything, for that matter.)"

Quote from post #8

I don't believe I said much in that post that could be taken as impolite.
Just me making my statement.

Thanks,
BDD

Calling somebody sketchy or shady for asking a common question is impolite as far as I'm concerned.

 

[BeardedDragonDude]

Calling somebody sketchy or shady for asking a common question is impolite as far as I'm concerned.

But that wasn't why I even brought those words up.
It was about the "work" he had not listed.
Again, you have brought that up again, and that wasn't what I was talking about.

 

[Beardomania]

But that wasn't why I even brought those words up.
It was about the "work" he had not listed.
Again, you have brought that up again, and that wasn't what I was talking about.

That doesn't make anybody sketchy or shady just because he didn't voluntarily outpour his work to you. Anybody could ask that harmless question on the longevity of bearded dragons for any reason on a forum about bearded dragons. The bottom line is you called someone sketchy/shady and it was definitely uncalled for.

 

[BeardedDragonDude]

That doesn't make anybody sketchy or shady just because he didn't voluntarily outpour his work to you. Anybody could ask that harmless question on the longevity of bearded dragons for any reason on a forum about bearded dragons. The bottom line is you called someone sketchy/shady and it was definitely uncalled for.

But I never called him sketchy/shady.
I said what he was doing seemed sketchy/shady.
If you took it as if I did, that's on you.
I clearly said "Nothing against you" multiple times and did not call him himself sketchy.
What I did say was what he was doj=ing seemed sketchy to me, and that maybe he should explain it better next time.
Never grilled him, (You said that.) never called him anything, (You supported that.) and never was impolite, (You said that.)
I said what he was doing could be and was taken by me as sketchy.

Thanks,
BDD

 

[Beardomania]

But I never called him sketchy/shady.
I said what he was doing seemed sketchy/shady.
If you took it as if I did, that's on you.
I clearly said "Nothing against you" multiple times

Oh, ok. I'm not saying that you're an unpleasant or idiotic person; I'm saying that you're debating me in an unpleasant and idiotic way. Nothing against you but if you take that as something impolite, that's on you. Better? Am I nice now?

and did not call him himself sketchy.

You did not call "himself" sketchy? LOLOL

What I did say was what he was doj=ing seemed sketchy to me, and that maybe he should explain it better next time.

No, he doesn't need to explain anything. Someone went on a bearded dragon forum asking about bearded dragon longevity saying it would help his research into bearded dragons. This cannot be construed as sketchy by any sane person in any universe. If you can't answer his question or don't want to, ignore it. Implying that someone's sketchy because he didn't start out with an outpour of information is nonsense.

Never grilled him, (You said that.) never called him anything, (You supported that.) and never was impolite, (You said that.)
I said what he was doing could be and was taken by me as sketchy.

Thanks,
BDD

Asking more than once if he owned a beardie, the second time pushing that he didn't answer you the first time is grilling. Calling someone's actions sketchy when they are by no means is impolite and I stand by it. It's sketchy for you to ask for his personal projects and information. He's not sketchy for asking about general bearded dragon information on a bearded dragon forum regardless of his intended use.

 

[BeardedDragonDude]

Oh, ok. I'm not saying that you're an unpleasant or idiotic person; I'm saying that you're debating me in an unpleasant and idiotic way. Nothing against you but if you take that as something impolite, that's on you. Better? Am I nice now?

You did not call "himself" sketchy? LOLOL

No, he doesn't need to explain anything. Someone went on a bearded dragon forum asking about bearded dragon longevity saying it would help his research into bearded dragons. This cannot be construed as sketchy by any sane person in any universe. If you can't answer his question or don't want to, ignore it. Implying that someone's sketchy because he didn't start out with an outpour of information is nonsense.

Asking more than once if he owned a beardie, the second time pushing that he didn't answer you the first time is grilling. Calling someone's actions sketchy when they are by no means is impolite and I stand by it. It's sketchy for you to ask for his personal projects and information. He's not sketchy for asking about general bearded dragon information on a bearded dragon forum regardless of his intended use.

Well, haven't found you to be extremely impolite.
Not gonna say that everything I do is perfect, in fact, if I said everything I did that was imperfect it would be an incredibly long list.
I also won't say that I haven't been wrong, but I won't say that you have been right on much either.

Maybe sketchy and shady were the wrong wordings, and if they are, that's my fault, and I'll say it right here and now.

As for explaining things, no, maybe he doesn't.
He also doesn't have to, but it'd make more sense if he did.

And for the last thing, coming from a very weird household, I would like to tell you that "grilling" is not the term you're looking for.
"Grilling" is called asking at least 3 times, then being broken down because you didn't answer quick enough.
"Grilling" is called being broken down emotionally by angry people, none of which are here, you neither I have done that.
And, if either of us have, (Or anyone.) then shame on them. (Which I still believe none of us have.)

I'm an extremely honor driven guy, something I'm sure none of you know after this.
Today... could have been better.

But, asking for a second time after not getting a correct answer is just life.
You ever dealt with kids?
Well, lemme tell you something if you haven't. (If you have, congrats.)
You don't just ask once, and if they don't answer you, go, "Oh well."
No, you ask a second time.
So, am I "grilling" my child?

Yeah, okay.

Again, I won't tell you that I'm 100% correct, but I will stand by the fact that he should have listed before what his "work" is.
All I asked was if he owned a BD and what his "work" is.
Nothing more, nothing less.
To you, I ask, is that "grilling"?

I have no quarrel nor grudge against either of you.
In fact, I love his idea of the book/database he has planned.
To me, that's absolutely genius.

So, with all that said, good day.

Thanks,
BDD