Help Identify my Dragons

[CB43FAN]

Hi,

New to the board and have a question about some recent additions. These are our new babies that were sold as hypotrans sandfire reds. I'm not worried about being ripped off if not as I only paid $50 for the pair. Can anyone confirm from seeing them if this is true or maybe another possibility? No big deal, I want to know what to expect when they grow out. These guys are doing awesome and have grown quite a bit since this photo was taken about 2 weeks ago. Eating dubias and any veggie I give them, even dandelions. Love it, free food.

Thanks!

 

[Germ]

It is hard to impossible to tell from a photo, the only way to know for sure, is if you know &/or have their documented lineage. There are some physical traits that may be visible, such as the all 20 claws being clear on a Hypo, or the obvious traits of a translucent for example. Here is a link & a thread that may be helpful ...

http://www.mbdragons.eu/en/genetica.htm

Morphs as I understand them.

Also if it is your intention to house them together, please check out & seriously consider the link or vid below on cohabitation.

A few good links to help get you started ...

Basic BD Care Sheet - A Place To Start

Bearded Dragon --- Exclusive Care Info Library

Beautiful Dragons Nutrition Chart

UVB Setup

Is Bearded Dragon Co-habitation a good plan?

How To Sex A Bearded Dragon

 

[CB43FAN]

Thanks germ,

I figured just about what you told me, but thought it may be worth asking. Obviously they aren't standard dragons, so.... They are beautiful little dragons and are currently housed together in a 10 gallon for a short time. Not sure of the sex of them yet, but I plan on trying to house them together at least for a little while and if i do, I have a large tank for them with everything to allow for two basking/UVB areas and hides, etc. when the time comes, if they aren't both males that is. If so, def going to separate.

Thanks for the input!

Craig

 

[Germ]

Either you didn't check out the article on cohabitation or are choosing to ignore the very real message it contains. No matter the sex.

A 10 gal enclosure is too small for any age Dragon, let alone 2. A 10 gal enclosure is simply not physically large enough to provide the Heat Gradient that these guys require. It is almost virtually impossible to have a temp gradient of 25-30 degrees Fahrenheit in the few inches that a 10 gallon provides. A minimum 20 Gal enclosure, preferably the 'Long' type, is needed to be able to provide this with the proper lighting setup. On this forum alone, we have had many BDs get ill & several actually expire directly related to being housed in a 10 gallon tank, because their keepers either came for help too late or did not heed the warnings in time.

Theses are 2 very serious issues that I sincerely hope that you will reconsider & separate them, each into larger enclosures.

Good Luck

 

[CB43FAN]

Thanks Germ, I am actually putting together their large tank right now and plan on separating them if needed. They are in the 10 because they are so small and waiting for their big tank to be finished. I do have the temp gradient working good, with a UTH under their basking rock and a lower wattage bulb above it. The basking area is 95 deg +/- and the other areas are basically room temp. Substrate is ceramic tile. They've only been in there for a few weeks but will be moving soon. I just find it easier to feed and care for in the smaller tank at the size they are right now. They are about 6 weeks old. They are eating dubias and veggies like little pigs, already shedding and just doing overall awesome. I know that separating them is ideal, but my tank I am building will have 2 basking/UV areas and gradients to minimize the dominance for heat, etc.

On another note, I am not doubting the warnings about co-hab, but have you personally experienced any of these horrific incidents that the vid displays? I am not trying to make this sound like I am confronting you, I just would like to know of any actual experiences anyone has had. I have been at other boards and talked to other people, and very few if anyone have seen such horrific outcomes and always refer to this same vid. It seems to me to be more cruel to let some of those animals shown live in their conditions than the actual dominance that caused the injuries. I mean some of those guys were missing all of their legs/feet, and some were rotting before our eyes! I know there is purposeful shock value in that video, but that is just cruel. I know that there are many, many BAD owners out there, that pay little attention to their pets once the shine has worn off, but doesn't adequate feeding and knowledgeable husbandry prevent most of these mutilations? I bet most of those poor dragons were put in too small of tanks with other, mismatched sized dragons and not fed or handled properly. It seems that there are many good owners out there that house them together without any incidents, ever, with the right combos. I know for sure you cannot house males together, but there must be some equation that works, as many seem to make it happen. I'm sure you know what I mean by this, but these guys are like an obsession to me and my family. We have these two and another larger male in a separate tank and treat them all like our babies. I guess what I am getting at is that we monitor these guys so very close and while we intend on trying to keep these two together, we know and are prepared to separate at the first sign of trouble.

Thanks again!

Craig

 

[ravenwolf]

Hi there, what beautiful dragons you have there. I'm afraid I can't tell myself being a fairly new bearded dragon owner - what variety they are but they are very beautiful

On the issue of cohabitation, yes some people do it and yes some people have them living together with no real issues but i personally don't see the need for it for the sake of another setup I personally would rather house mine separately than come home to find something like the images in the link Germ gave you. The reason we are quite against it is simply to help you as a bearded dragon keeper it's not something anyone likes to hear about and I have personally seen the results of cohabitation between my male and female who were housed together before I took them on, they were visably very stressed and my male is missing the tip of his tail probably an old injury. My newest addition was a male housed with a female, fairly young, 9 months old and has toe nails missing. Obviously these are minor injuries - however a lady I know who needed to incubate cornsnake eggs and made the mistake of putting her male bearded dragon in with a female learned the hard way as her male got so stressed he passed away even though they were in a huge 5ft vivarium with separate basking spots food bowls etc.

It is a very real risk, but at the end of the day no one can tell you how to keep animals we are simply trying to guide you so you can enjoy them to the best ability

Hope to see more of these little cuties as they grow

 

[Germ]

@CB43FAN - A more ideal basking temp for young Juveniles, is closer to the vicinity of 110F to aid in faster more efficient digestion of their food. The temps you are quoting are more suitable for adults.

Yes I have experienced what some of those pics portray, as some of the Pics are of my own dragons, my own experience over the last 12 or so years & are what I was talking about when I referenced to my own personal experience when I wrote the article & created the video. I have had only one BD die on me, in all the BDs that I have had, housed with another same sized female in a 208 gal enclosure, 12 square feet of floor area, with multiple similar basking areas, lots of room, together from the start, appearing to get along famously, suddenly got ill @ 19 months, straight to the vet, died in my hand the next day. No other explanation but stress related & I take full responsibility, I made a deadly mistake. Tried it twice with different female BDs, the other time in a 90 gal, both times eventually unsuccessful, the first time, luckily no serious injuries, but after some time of apparent compatability, turned aggressive towards each other so were separated. Have personally seen the aftermath of an aquaintance's dismembered & killed dragon by a cagemate, found by his 8 yo, wouldn't have been a pretty sight to come home from school to. He didn't heed the warnings either.

I learned, wrote & created the vid in hopes of educating people & possibly preventing other BDs from suffering similar fates, shortly after. Yes, many of the terrible pics are there for the 'shock' effect, to show the very real possible consequences of this practice. Because many, like you & me are/were skeptical, many unfortunately, myself included, finding out the hard way at the dragons' expense & suffering. Am hoping you & many others will learn from mine & many others stupid mistakes & experiences. There are some female combinations that work, but the chances of just grabbing 2 & putting them together being successful throughout their lives with no instances are slim. Some breeders, because they have a selection of dragons to choose from to find compatible female BDs sometimes have better luck. But that luxury is rarely available to the regular 'Pet' owner/keeper.

It only takes once, a split second, the first sign of trouble could be missing limbs or worse. Even if we could watch them 24/7/365, which we can't, things can happen much too fast for intervention.

Now please don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying that every instance of cohabitation will go seriously Sour, but the ones that do work are more the exception than the rule.

 

[CB43FAN]

Thanks for the help Germ!

 

[avyrus666]

No matter what sized tank you have, UTHs are a bad idea. They can burn themselves because the heat doesn't register with them like when basking. They have a type of 3rd eye on their head that reads light and temp basically. Which also aids as an alert system for overhead threats. Which is why proper lighting and gradient is a must. I might have worded this incorrectly but you can read up more about it elsewhere. Please, even with the proper sized tank, do not use a UTH. If needed, use a ceramic heat emitter.

Sent from my ADR6330VW using Tapatalk 2

 

[CB43FAN]

My UTH is actually under rock formation which sits on top of ceramic tile substrate. It really only provides some increase in ambient air temp in that area, just makes the tile itself warm to the touch, not hot at all.

My larger baby has shed over the weekend, check out this little dude now. WOW! Def Red of some kind. Still waiting on the other one to change.

Plan on setting up my 55 gal soon with a separator in the center to keep them apart until the large duplex tank is built.

Thanks for the input.