Female hip wiggling

[Marshmallow]

Would appreciate some thoughts please. My 2 and a half year old female exhibited very strange behaviour on Wednesday night when I got her out as usual after work for a runaround, rather than run she wriggled/shuffled her hip/vent area on the ground while doing the same with her nose at the same time. I checked to see if she was belly shedding and she wasn't, vent also clean. I videoed and showed vet next day, she was puzzled as to the behaviour but advised she looked very healthy etc so scanned her belly and advised she was egg bound, she hasn't till then shown any gravid behaviour, no digging she is eating well, drinking well and has not exhibited any other abnormal behaviour. Here is where I need some opinions please, the vet immediately started talking about surgically removing the eggs, however didn't know how long I should wait before taking her back, she was checking a book, I'm not sure she even meant egg bound rather than being gravid. She advised baths and a lay box and go back on Monday if she hasn't laid. She has since stopped the wiggling but shows no interest in digging or the lay box however does frantically want out the viv constantly, I should mention no eggs will be fertile can someone advise me how long I should wait before approaching vet again, I do fear invasive surgery if its not required. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[PatsyB]

When was the last time she went to the bathroom? Mine do a hip wiggle in the tub when they are trying to poop.

The vet that you took(?) her too, is she an exotic vet? It doesn't sound like it if she was looking at a book for answers. Gravid females is something that every exotic vet should know about. I would get a second opinion from someone that is more qualified.

 

[Marshmallow]

Thank you for the reply PatsyB, I did worry about impaction however she's normal and regular, my other girl can hold on for a couple of weeks, but the young one is every day in the morning. Her urates are normal, that said the last couple of days she's been going twice. Our local reptile shop recommended the vet before he closed down so I no longer have his expertise either, I travel to see the vet as there are none local.

 

[Hdrydr31]

I'm no expert but I would say she's just not quite ready to lay her eggs, I would keep up with regular baths, calcium for sure as she is depleting her supply to make eggs, keep her hydrated. She may not want to lay in her enclosure?

hopefully some of the others here that do breed will chime in and give some added advice.. As I have a female but she has not (knock on wood) been gravid..

 

[Marshmallow]

Thank you Hdrydr81 for your reply. I do find it difficult as I don't know how long ago the follicles started growing like a mated female you have 4 or 5 weeks but I have no clue of the duration or when it started, vet did say a couple of eggs looked around 2 cm, again my girls are purely pets so have never delved much into the breeding aspect.

 

[Hdrydr31]

Thank you Hdrydr81 for your reply. I do find it difficult as I don't know how long ago the follicles started growing like a mated female you have 4 or 5 weeks but I have no clue of the duration or when it started, vet did say a couple of eggs looked around 2 cm, again my girls are purely pets so have never delved much into the breeding aspect.

Yea me either, I have a male and female but have NO interest in breeding but I do know that even though they will never be allowed to be unsupervised while together they are always at a distance.. my female may become gravid just because a male is around it's weird but I've heard of it happening.. and I do know they can hold on to sperm for up to a year before becoming gravid... so how long have you had your female?

 

[Marshmallow]

My gravid girl I've had since 6wks, she's 2 1\2 now, the other girl I adopted about a week after and she was approximately 2 yrs old then so I have experience of both ages, neither have laid eggs. There is very little online help in regards to unmated females laying and stages etc, only symptoms of egg binding, however since shes not mated i cant gauge lengths of time, I'm afraid that if she gets to the stage of not eating which is also a ready to lay symptom that it'll be too late. Thank you again for your reply, I hope your female spares you the worry

 

[Kathryn Kinney]

How is she eating? She will start to have more smaller bowel movements and then stop eating. Once she starts trying to get out I would put her in her lay bin for 1 hour in the afternoon. Make sure it is warmed up before putting her in and once she shows signs of digging leave her longer. Just make sure she is in a quiet undisturbed area because they are vulnerable at this time. Repeat this everyday hopefully she will lay. Also make sure she gets a bath everday too.

 

[Kathryn Kinney]

If she acts tired and lathargic you will need to take her to the vet. It is hard being infertile you do not know how long she has had them, but her instinct should kick in. Hoping all goes well.

 

[Marshmallow]

Thank you Kathryn, I made up a lay box yesterday with a heat lamp over it, one of my spare cockroach rubs filled with sand and compost and a hide complete with a towel wrapped around, she will just not dig! She gets out and follows me around the house till I stop then she climbs me to my shoulder and won't move, I took the day off work to concentrate on her and she has spent a grand total of 1 hour in her viv since she got up this morning, she has been frantic (not just glass surfing let me out behaviour) full on jumping from sides, from basking spot frantically throwing herself around the viv, she's only still and content sitting on my shoulder, this is very unlike her.

 

[Kathryn Kinney]

Their behavior does change a lot but sounds normal to me for getting ready to lay. My girl becomes an acrobat and jumps and climbs up on her vents. It is very stressful on both of you but when she stops that behavior and hasn't laid I would worry. I am a stay at home mom so always am able to watch her. Maybe if you make a smaller one to fit in her enclosure as well so she always has an option in case you have to work. How many days has she been acting strange? I would say my girls behavior is like that for a good week.
Also is she still eating? She should stop and then will lay a couple days later.

 

[Marshmallow]

The hip wiggling began Wednesday night and stopped Thursday lunchtime, I'm glad I recorded it as she did not perform this at the vet Thursday night or since. She is eating normalish, she never finished her bowl of greens today just graised, had 1 morio, 2 cockroaches and 1 locust, not her usual ravenous grabbing i admit but I dont feel that shes off her food, earlier today she pooped for a second time on my room floor, funny thing was she head bobbed after, and later on while resting on my shoulder she head bobbed very softly, I could see nothing to cause this reaction, the scrambling in her viv has been since yesterday. Thanks for taking the time to reply I will see what I can devise as you advised for inside her viv.

 

[Marshmallow]

Thank you to all who helped during a really worrying time for me. Just to update in case someone else queries sometime down the line, Zak is indeed laying eggs as we speak, I have had Zak since she was 6 weeks old she is now 2 & a half, she has never shared floorspace or Viv's with either a male or female. I also have another 4/5 year old female who has never exhibited gravid behaviour, both girls never socialise together.
For the timing aspect for those who might experience what I have, the unusual wiggling occurred 2 days before any digging activity or frantic pacing to get out the viv and the eventual laying 4 days after wiggling. She has been bright and responsive throughout.
Im hoping this might help someone further down the line who like me found very little information unless I was breeding the female. Again thanks to all who offered me reassurance.

 

[Kathryn Kinney]

Glad to hear all is well.

 

[PatsyB]

Glad to hear she is well. You need to make sure you up her calcium intake now because the eggs take a lot out of them even infertile ones. Some people use a pinky mouse, you could also feed cooked egg whites. @Kathryn Kinney may have some more ideas for building up calciums stores again.

 

[Kathryn Kinney]

Yes, pinkies are good but mine won't touch them. Collards are pretty high in calcium as well. Keep dusting with calcium 5x for 2 weeks to make sure she is not making any more eggs and build her calcium back up. Females can lay more than 1 infertile clutch so keep a close watch for signs. Make sure you mark a calendar, she will probably lay again the same time next year so you know to supplement her diet more a month before she laid eggs.

 

[Marshmallow]

Thank you patsy and Kathryn, I noticed a voracious appetite right after laying, finishing off bowls of veg and roaches/hoppers and morios right up till yesterday, however after noticing that familiar hip wiggling on Friday I thought the worst, I came home from work today to find she has laid another 23 eggs, the eggs were well formed but she looks dreadful, If she lays again within a couple of weeks I will have to find another vet and start discussing options.

 

[Hdrydr31]

Thank you patsy and Kathryn, I noticed a voracious appetite right after laying, finishing off bowls of veg and roaches/hoppers and morios right up till yesterday, however after noticing that familiar hip wiggling on Friday I thought the worst, I came home from work today to find she has laid another 23 eggs, the eggs were well formed but she looks dreadful, If she lays again within a couple of weeks I will have to find another vet and start discussing options.

Oh my poor baby and poor you.. what about spaying her? If she's always going thru the process with little to no re coup time that can't be good..

 

[PatsyB]

Sorry this is happening. It seems like some females lay tons of clutches and some lay none.

 

[Marshmallow]

Oh my poor baby and poor you.. what about spaying her? If she's always going thru the process with little to no re coup time that can't be good.. [/QU
She hasn't bothered with her greens today however did manage to get her to eat roaches well dusted but she's been quiet, probably still exhausted. I wasn't prepared for a full lay of eggs laid within a fortnight and I can't bear the thought of her going through this on a regular basis so I will start asking around further afield for approved vets to spey her, my vet did recommend a vetinary hospital some 50 miles away where she qualified as she has only spayed a beardie once since she qualified I will keep a close eye. Thank you all again for your help and kind concerns.