Continued Lazyness/Lethargy?

[pamela simko]

Hi there nice beardie people!
I'm new to having a lizard, and had actually posted something about my lizard before I realized how naturally lazy they are.
And so, I got used to how lazy my dragon was at that point. The problem is is that he's gotten worse.

At first, I would feed him by hand. He was new, I was suspicious about his health, and so I basically force fed him for the first few days. Then, he started to take the food from my hand, but still didn't move a muscle.
Then, there was a golden era where he would actually stick his tongue out and eat the bugs from outside as they would walk by. But that's over.
It's been about six weeks that I've had Bob, and in this amount of time I've only seen his little tongue in action a handful of times.
It isn't like I'm jamming food down his throat. He clearly wants to be eating. And truthfully, I have to starve him for a day for him to get hungry enough to eat on his own. He WILL eat on his own, but not as long as my paranoid crazy behind is going to feed him. Which is something that I cannot go six hours without doing.

I know that he now EXPECTS to be fed. He's like one of those badly behaved children on Maury Povich that continue to be bad bc they know that they can. He knows damned good and well that I really can't stand to see him hungry.
But WHY is he so lazy? Is it that he is lazy, or is this some other problem?
Oh great people of the beardie community - please help me. I miss watching him eat on his own. I told myself for a long time now that it's ok to have an animal that's super needy, but it isn't. It isn't ok. I have other animals that are deformed or whatnot, don't have jaws, or have brain conditions that NEED me to feed them, and imho, he isn't one of those, but just gotten used to being fed.
Is that possible? And if so, how do I break the habit?

 

[atochats]

I think maybe you've answered your own question. Cold turkey hon. Get him on a strict, simple routine and stick to it! They can and will become spoiled very quickly. As long as he doesn't have health problems, and there aren't any husbandry issues that need attention...let him do more for himself. Let him WANT to do more for himself

 

[pamela simko]

I actually figured out an easier way to do this, should any other person be faced with a co-dependant lizard in the future.
Without having to starve Bob, I simply put him on the front lawn with a dental floss leash around his leg, in case of the errant owll that might be hungry.
After twenty minutes, he was so enticed by non-typical food bugs that he started to eat the pill bugs that would meander by.
So, I guess that I'll have to surrender twenty minutes of my day to "walking" the dragon outside, but it's worth it if it makes him more self reliant.
Thanks though for being honest with me, I sometimes need a push away from being too doting and overbearing.

 

[atochats]

Oh no Pamela you shouldn't have to walk your dragon to get him to eat lol. Dental floss leash? Danger of cutting off circulation and God forbid anything did get hold of him, what would you plan on doing? Play tug of war and break his leg in the process? Besides eating wild bugs outside is a big no no. Like I said...begin a routine. Feed inside the tank, or outside but keep it the same all the time. Keep it simple...offer food twice daily if he doesn't eat in 20 minutes...tough noogies...he'll have to wait till his next scheduled feeding. Fresh salad avail at all times. Keep things rhe same. Begin a schedule and stick to it

 

[Luvthemanimal]

Routine for beardies is key soon enough they will be running back and forth at dinner time.

And yes don't let them eat outdoor bugs. Pesticides etc in them......

 

[Canicke]

What they said !

 

[pamela simko]

Why is eating outside bugs a no, no? I've never read that anywhere. But, I mean, if you say so....I"ll believe you.
I knew it was a bit wreckless with the floss leash, but you're thinking it was tight when it was actually just loose enough for me to have a chance to scare away some flying invader....See, I've seen it happen with a women's toy chihuahua, and I know, I'm probably paranoid....But, if you were there, you would be paranoid for life too.
So why no outside bugs? He really loves them. Loves the sunshine, and the chance to run. I'll do as you say, but just tell me why so that I know, so that I can learn from it.

 

[pamela simko]

The reason I ask, is that I think going outside is what makes him hungry. And I can't very well stop a lizard tongue in action every time he sees a bug. I know that I could try, but I probably wouldn't succeed, so I guess what I'm asking is,
Are you saying that outside bugs are lethal? Or just bad for the long term?
It isn't going to kill him to eat the occasional one, right?
Or are you saying that outside is bad? I hope not, as Bob really likes it. It's completely reversed his lazy behavior....He's eating on his own. And he isn't so lazy.

 

[Luvthemanimal]

Indoor feeding you control the bugs he eats. Out side u have no idea what he's shoving in his mouth....... A Beetle? Can't digest. A poisonous spider? Kills it. Never know of what's out there and the could be sprayed with pesticides.

The auntie good for them for obvious reasons. But for the love of God don't let it eat anything from outside.

If it refuses to eat what u put in the tank of frickin well. It doesn't eat that day. It will get hungry and eat on its own.

Everyday put fresh greens. Than every night dust crickets with calcium powder and toss them in the tank. And WALK out of the room. He very well could not like you watching. I know mine sure as s hit hates it. I will sit there with my kids and watch them eat. But yet they don't. As soon as we r out the room they go crazy after both bugs.

You are being honestly way to paranoid about it.

It is a wild animal after all and is only depended on you for food.

 

[Canicke]

Get a leash. Floss may start loose but get tight real quick

 

[pamela simko]

Oh God! Beetles kill them?
Well. Ok then. I guess that I'll have to take away his outdoor walks. It is going to break my heart. He actually runs up onto my bed around one o'clock now. That's the time I take him out.
He's going to miss it.
Poor little Bob. I'm going to Edit my previous statement as to make sure nobody that might read it in the future won't just stop that far up on the page and think it's a good idea. Apparently I'm 0 for 2 with him.
I do all of the things that I'm supposed to as far as greens, he gets them in the morning. I vary what I give him. This week was cilantro and romaine.
True I don't dust his food, but that's bc the pet store does it before they sell them, and I'm not going to double dose him.
I really am so very careful about everything. I simply wanted him to feel a bit more free, you know? You can't really fault me for that, right?
I have this nagging feeling keeping animals pent up inside, like I'm running an animal Dachau or something.
But, as miserable as it will make me to cease his outside time, I guess that I can't risk him eating something that will kill him.
I thank you very much for being so honest about the imperative nature of this.
If you were to say that it were simply bad for the long term, I may have just cut back.
But since apparently the first errant spider that crosses our path could be deadly, I guess that today's play time is cancelled. Thank you so much guys, you may have just saved a beardie. He would thank you too but he's too busy pouting.

 

[pamela simko]

Ok, I can't edit my previous post. God hope that other newbies will read the whole page. Sorry about that.

 

[Luvthemanimal]

Oh God! Beetles kill them?
Well. Ok then. I guess that I'll have to take away his outdoor walks. It is going to break my heart. He actually runs up onto my bed around one o'clock now. That's the time I take him out.
He's going to miss it.
Poor little Bob. I'm going to Edit my previous statement as to make sure nobody that might read it in the future won't just stop that far up on the page and think it's a good idea. Apparently I'm 0 for 2 with him.
I do all of the things that I'm supposed to as far as greens, he gets them in the morning. I vary what I give him. This week was cilantro and romaine.
True I don't dust his food, but that's bc the pet store does it before they sell them, and I'm not going to double dose him.
I really am so very careful about everything. I simply wanted him to feel a bit more free, you know? You can't really fault me for that, right?
I have this nagging feeling keeping animals pent up inside, like I'm running an animal Dachau or something.
But, as miserable as it will make me to cease his outside time, I guess that I can't risk him eating something that will kill him.
I thank you very much for being so honest about the imperative nature of this.
If you were to say that it were simply bad for the long term, I may have just cut back.
But since apparently the first errant spider that crosses our path could be deadly, I guess that today's play time is cancelled. Thank you so much guys, you may have just saved a beardie. He would thank you too but he's too busy pouting.

Ok.

Pet stores Do NOT GET LOAD OR DUST there crickets.

You need to do both.

Dust with this every day

Dust with this twice a week.

You can take him for walk with a leash. The outdoor sun is AWESOME for them. Just don't let him EAT ANYTHING out doors.

Romaine has zero nutritional value for your beardie. Kale collards dandelion leaves mustard greens etc is what u want.

I know you wish to not keep them in cages etc. But beardies need a certain environment to thrive.

They need basking area 100 - 110. Cool side 80 - 85. Uvb within basking area.

They need that basking area to digest food etc without that they can be come impacted which can cause death. They need to UVB to get vit d. It's basically there sun which is why it needs to be within the basking area.

We r here to help and I'm sorry if I'm coming across as an ******* but you seem to appreciate things to the point and I do truly hate sugar coating things so to speak.

 

[pamela simko]

Hmmm....Well, I give him UVA and B, and I have a heater for him. As well, it's about eighty outside. His ambient temp is close to 100F, but I am a little afraid that something is going to short out or catch fire so I keep it a around 95 ish under the lights.
He poops every twelve hours. We've never had a constipation problem yet.
He's never spit food out. He clearly enjoys eating. He just would rather I put it in front of him.
I read an another site that romaine was ok. That's why I bought it.
Ok, guess that was more bad information.

Also, the pet store actually DOES dust them, in front of me even, when I'm about to leave. Are you saying that I need to put even more on them? I know that you are maybe implying that the pet store may have been lying but they aren't. I wouldn't believe them if I didn't see them do it myself. But if you still want me to I suppose that I will.
As far as gut loading, I don't think that they do that. They don't say that they do, so they probably don't.
They aren't a name brand pet store, and they sort of cater to me for being a customer for so long, so they're relatively honest.
I guess gut loading won't hurt, but I have to ask, are you sure that double dusting them is a good idea?

I DO appreciate honesty. Just keep in mind that I didn't simply invent any of the things that I do, I got them all from the internet or other people. So, in defense of my actions, I hope that you don't think I'm being careless or lazy. That is far from the problem. I really do love this animal and spend nearly all of my free time thinking of ways to make him more happy.

 

[Luvthemanimal]

I don't think that at all. Just want you to have best info provided.

If they do dust them what do they use? And what quantity do u get at a time?

IMO I wouldn't have them dust them and just don't yourself. They must be gut loaded otherwise your feeding an empty shell of nothingness if they r crickets. Worms roaches are different.

Romaine has no nutritional value. It has water so is OK sometimes. Just not a staple diet.

 

[pamela simko]

Damn. I buy romaine for myself bc I thought that it was better than iceberg. I used to give it my ducks bc they liked it better than corn feed. I had put a lot of stock in Romaine. I'd be lying to say I'm not disappointed.

Anyway, the store dusts them with Calcium, I can see that there is another Multivitamin that needs be applied too, so I'll buy that.

I don't know what roach worms are, I'm assuming you mean superworms? That's what he gets.
He gets about 7 -10 superworms, 3-4 at six hour intervals during the day. At night, I don't feed him.
Every morning he gets a mixture of Romaine, and cilantro. I know I'll have to change the lettuce.
But I vary his greens. Sometimes it's Italian parsley, sometimes Cilantro, sometimes, cabbage, although I've never heard good nor bad about cabbage, so I haven't used it that often.
He only gets one feeding of greens in the morning.

I give him crickets only once a week, about twenty of them. For two days he gets these. Then it's back to superworms. I often would supplement his diet with "pill bugs" otherwise known as rolly pollies. They are those bugs that roll up into little balls. There are so many in my front yard that I give them to all of my creatures, and til now, I've not had a problem. I like them bc I don't like to give my animals the same thing every day. That would be like ectotherm jail, instead of ectotherm paradise.
I've learned that they aren't poisonous, and that nobody in our neighborhood is allowed to use aerosol pesticides in large quantites, which would be the only way that a neighbors spraying would affect my yard. So, I've always thought they were pretty safe. I will probably continue using them with the frogs. But with Bob, I don't take any chances, as I am a new owner and all that. So, I'll discontinue his "treat" buggies, I guess. He'll get over it.

He has the requisite lights, as I said, and when he isn't in his basking area, I generally allow him to run around on my bed or curl up with me when I watch television. He loves tv. He sticks his face in front of the monitor, just like he does with the window. I guess he likes the motion.

I think that he's pretty happy and healthy, except for a nostril deformity (a darkened nostril) that he's had since I got him. Sometimes I worry that I smoke in the house, but it isn't that frequently, and I never smoke near him. I DO believe however, that he is extremely lazy bc I've allowed him to be lazy for so long. I probably wouldn't bother to go all the way to the toaster and press a button if somebody was going to put the toast in my mouth for me.

I don't think that I'm doing that bad a job, right? If I was really balls-ing the whole thing up, I assume he would have died, so......I dunno. Maybe if I get this new powder that I didn't know about, the multivitamin one, I'll be totally flawless in my performance? I hope. No?

I actually brought him to the vet too. I told her all these things, and had her look at this nostril, and the only problem she had was that he was "awfully docile", which I agree. Otherwise, he has a pretty good bill of health according to her.

I dunno. You think that I'm crapping something up still? Nobody gave me a manual for these guys - I wish they would have.

 

[atochats]

I know I don't think you're being reckless or silly you seem like someone who just wants to do what's good for your beardie Being outside is wonderful for them and they do make reptile harnesses for this very reason. I'd look into getting one of those. Outdoor insects can also carry internal parasites and disease you don't want your beardie exposed to. Luvthemanimal is giving excellent guidance, would be good to listen to. Dark greens like collard, mustard, or turnip greens are great. Also escarole and endive. Squash is good too. NO citrus!!!

 

[Luvthemanimal]

No you seem to be doing just fine. No one is ever an expert. Which is why we all ask questions and learn from each other.

Dubi roches is what I ment. Super worms are good but fatty.
Silk worms and phoenix worms r really good for them.

Maybe read these links.

1. http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3
2. http://
www.beardeddragonforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5
3. http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4
4. http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=7
5. http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html
6. http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

 

[pamela simko]

Wow, thanks.
I'll give those a read.
I realize that, with the exception of outside bugs, that my little guy has it pretty good, and i'm not going to kick myself too much. I still take him outside but with a full tummy so that he doesn't eat, and I guard him like a hawk to make sure he doesn't eat.
Thank you to all the people who set me straight on this matter, I really didn't know.
Seems like what I didn't know could fit a manual the size of the one that you SHOULD get regarding your bearded dragon.

 

[Luvthemanimal]

Don't kick yourself in the arse to hard lol. So much info out there and who do u believe........ Your doing just fine