CalciWorms/Phoenix Worms?

[Scottio]

Has anyone actually tried feeding these?

I've been looking into them for a while and I've seen a lot of places saying they are perfect for a staple diet. I was looking to getting a few delivered.

Charizard is currently on crickets but he'll eat almost anything that moves!

I'm currently on 4th size crickets. Does anyone have any knowledge on these worms?

Thanks

Scott

 

[river-7]

Phoniex; worms are suppose to be very good for baby; That is all i know and where i go they have them. But don't keep long So order less.If your in Canada?? I can direct you to a good place. All their food is CANADIAN grown .Specialty [sp] reptile shop and very know ledgable.hope it helps-Bella-Aka-river

 

[Scottio]

I'm from the UK and I have ordered some online, I was just wondering if anyone had actually tried them! Thanks x

 

[river-7]

I am about and will let you know-bella

 

[Scottio]

Got these today. I'll report back after his next feed x

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Germ]

Phoenix Worms have been thought to be the perfect feeder, which is a bunch of crap, in my opinion. They are not a bad feeder, but I would never use them as a staple diet.

Pheonix Worms, Calci-Worms, Repti-worms are all different names for the same feeder, the Maggot of the Black soldier fly. They are good in the fact that they contain much higher Calcium content than most other feeders. Many think that for this reason that they do not have to calcium dusted, but they still must be dusted to help make up for poor calcium to phosphorous ratio of their other foods. They consist of less Protein & like most worms, more Fat, than a cricket. Because you don't feed them, they can not be gutloaded to increase their nutritional value, as you can most other feeders. They are very small, so take a lot to feed. Have a short survival rate in warmer climates. In my opinion, they are similar to other worms, in that they make a good treat or periodic change up feeder, but not to be used as a steady staple daily diet.

Here is an article providing a good explanation to give an understanding on the Calcium to Phosphorous & Fat to Protien ratio ...

The main points to look out for are the fat content and the Ca: P ratio.​

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Ca: P Ratio and Reptiles​

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Many have heard about the Ca/P ratio but not many understand what it means to your reptiles. The Ca: P ratio is simply the ratio of Calcium compared to Phosphorus and so a Ca: P ratio of 1 (one or 1:1) would mean that Calcium & Phosphorus are found in equal quantities, a Ca: P ratio of 0.5 (half or 0.5:1) means that there is half the amount of Calcium than there is Phosphorus. An ideal Ca: P ratio would be around 2 (two or 2:1) as this will allow calcium to be easily absorbed.​

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So why is this important? It has to do with the way Calcium is absorbed by your reptile's intestine. For any calcium to be absorbed, there needs to be at least equal quantities of Calcium and Phosphorus in their food. If the Phosphorus is much higher, then not only will it prevent calcium being absorbed, but may even leach calcium that is already present in your reptile's body. This can lead to serious problems such as MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease). When Calcium and Phosphorus are dissolved in equal quantities, it forms an insoluble salt (Calcium Phosphate) which is very difficult to absorb by your reptile's intestine. If there is a large amount of phosphorus compared to the calcium, then all the calcium will be bound by the phosphorus and none will be available for your reptile. If there is a large excess of calcium, then no phosphorus can be absorbed, which is also a vital mineral but not needed in as large a quantity as calcium. Ideally the Ca/P ratio for most vertebrates is around 2 (also written as 2:1).​

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Fat vs Protein​

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Another thing to look out for is the amount of fat compared to protein. Fat contains twice as many calories as protein, but doesn't provide any of the nutritional benefits that are gained from proteins from their amino acids which are essential for the health of any living creature. The calories from fat are often called "empty calories" in dietary terminology. Most insectivorous reptiles will receive greater benefit from a high protein/low fat diet.​

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Source - http://www.leedspetshops.co.uk​

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Read more: http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/index.php?threads/basic-bd-care-sheet-a-place-to-start.5177/#ixzz29q9t2ad1​

Just my $.02 on the subject.

 

[river-7]

GERM: Thank you for that as i won't waste my time to buy for baby-Can you suggest the best protein worm to buy??? Or grow they don't bother me any and i want the best worm as a staple as well as crix;Could it be silk worms as recommended in the diet page?? Thanks Germ for any info as i want to feed the best Prices don't bother me just a quailty for him. Bella-aka-river-7

 

[Germ]

As far as I'm concerned there are very few, if any worms, that should be used as the main Staple diet & should be more, as mentioned, treats or a periodic change up. This is not to say, do not feed them, but the majority, if any at all, are not suited to be fed as their staple Daily diet, but make good treats, like candy to a child, they like them, but not necessarily the best for them . It is also very easy for a BD to become 'Worm Spoiled' & then be just like young children, refuse to eat the foods that are better for them. Unfortunately, one of the best staple diet feeders out there, Tropical Roaches (e.g. - Discoid & Dubia) are considered an invasive species & are illegal to keep in Canada (Makes absolutely no sense, as they could never survive our climate), so most Canadian keepers will not risk keeping them.

 

[river-7]

AWH; Thank you so much GERM; as i will not go to the trouble looking for any and just give an ocasinal[sp] treat for him lol-Man you mods; are just great in helping with the health of our babys and MUST be APPRECIATED. Thank you soo Much. Bella-aka=river-7

 

[Noella]

Hmm. I was thinking of buying large reptiworms to give variety, not to use a staple insect though. Maybe not after all.

 

[Scottio]

Thanks for the info Germ, I'm using them as treats from now on.

 

[Scottio]

Hey guys, Back to this as I've gotten a bit more feedback with these.

Personally, I'm not going to use them. The beardie loved them, they wriggle round the bowl and he seemed to enjoy eating them but at the current price and compared to crickets, they shouldnt be used as a staple.

Not only this is that they don't last long. I was told I didnt need to feed them, give them water or do anything. As I was only giving him a few a day this delayed the amount of time I had them for but I'd say theres about 50% of the 100 tub that I bought are now dead.

Not the best purchase, keep them for when they are needed (Breeding).

x

 

[Aleena]

Thanks for the feedback on that, Scottio!

 

[Augie]

Wow... today me and the wife were just tooling around, getting ideas for Christmas shopping and stuff. Decided to go to Petsmart (I know, trust me I know, but we were just wasting time). I noticed they had a live reptile feeder section. I'll be honest, initially I got a little excited. I fumbled through like 3-4 of the calciworm tubs. 99.9% of them were dead (and it smelled like death in the tubs). I say 99.9% because one of them had changed into a black soldier fly!!! As soon as I opened the tub it flew out and around me, then took off.

Sad. I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it reconfirmed for me to never buy from there. Which sucks, because I wish I had a reliable local supplier for variety like that.

 

[river-7]

Hi; all, well i did order the phoniex worms for my babies and would like to try them-i am in Canada so i'll see how they work out-will let you all know my opinion on them. They should arrive this week-bella

 

[river-7]

Recieved mine yesterday and babies went nutso over them. I did not have no die-offs but was given an extra container of them in case of any die-offs-but it clearly stats on the container to keep in 50-60-%-F, and also add a little couple of drops of water from time to time if they look like they are drying out.so babies are very happy and so is Mommie. Just my opinion-My leather-back is a little picky about eating but no picking there. She ate them no problem and as Scottio said in a post they do wiggle a lot and i think a good treat for babies and pickey eaters. But not to be used as a staple as i believe GERM has already said that. Once i give each baby about 10-little worms i feed just a few crix; and they seem very full. Hope this helps anyone.-bella-aka-river

 

[Kashiya]

I've been feeding my guy veggies and then about 20 Phoenix worm and to finish of the meal with 30 crickets. My guy is a big juvenile and eats so much. I found the Phoenix worms very expensive and not very filling for my guy. Though they do make a good spacer between his meals since he takes awhile to eat them. I ordered mine from Saskatchewan and all where alive even after sitting outside in minus temps for a few hours. The mediums are very small and the larges really aren't noticeably different so really takes a lot for even a snack.