Beardy runny/closed eyes, odd slime around mouth, sneezes. Possible causes: vaping? Dust? Other animals?

[Animalia]

Hello,

His name is Poe. Short for Pogona viticeps (latin for bearded dragon). I've had my dragon for approximately 2 years. He was super healthy. I have moved multiple times throughout the province, he has been dragon-sat by multiple different people (with and without other pets), and he was indifferent to it all.

I've recently moved into a new place. About 1 month in my lizard ended up with a sealed shut eye. I took to swabbing his eye with Q-tips, using saline water and silver. I also gave him highly nutritious meals using the multi-vits and cal-vits in case it was a Vit D deficiency. As his appetite has tapered within reaching adulthood. It took several weeks for his eye to get better, so I thought everything was fine. Well, his eye is sealed shut again. In addition, his other eye is runny. He has a strange slime that develops around his mouthline. He sneezes (sounds dry).

I would like to go discuss possible causes and see if I can get to the bottom of it:
1. Vitamin D deficiency. I chose this as option 1 because I know this is everyone's immediate goto, but I don't think this is the cause. I've been feeding him the same as I did the past two years. I think it is related to the change in the environment.
2. Dehydration. He is used to the Northern BC cold and humidity (unlike Australia). Though Kamloops is a hot/dry desert. Water evaporates out of his water dish and has to be refilled every second day. He does sit in his water bowl lots.
3. Dust/fur/vape floating in the air. It took 2 weeks for several millimetres of dust and fur to accumulate in his cage. I've moved him into my room where the dust/fur/vape isn't as bad. It had been ~2.5 weeks and his cage is still relatively clean from dust. Though the dust seems to still be bothering him??
4. Pink eye related fungus. I don't think it is pink eye because I don't see a method of contamination (unless it is caused by the dust). Nonetheless this is what my roommate thinks it is. This is why I'm using the silver as eye treatment.
5. Anyone elses ideas?

Please share your experiences with causes and solutions to lizard gooey-eye/mouth problems. It is much appreciated.

Note: There is no exotic vets within my region, hence why I'm writing on here. Please no judgy 'you're a horrible pet owner - take it to the vet' comments. If I take it to the vet, it would be for euthanasia.

 

[Sadie]

Hello,

His name is Poe. Short for Pogona viticeps (latin for bearded dragon). I've had my dragon for approximately 2 years. He was super healthy. I have moved multiple times throughout the province, he has been dragon-sat by multiple different people (with and without other pets), and he was indifferent to it all.

I've recently moved into a new place. About 1 month in my lizard ended up with a sealed shut eye. I took to swabbing his eye with Q-tips, using saline water and silver. I also gave him highly nutritious meals using the multi-vits and cal-vits in case it was a Vit D deficiency. As his appetite has tapered within reaching adulthood. It took several weeks for his eye to get better, so I thought everything was fine. Well, his eye is sealed shut again. In addition, his other eye is runny. He has a strange slime that develops around his mouthline. He sneezes (sounds dry).

I would like to go discuss possible causes and see if I can get to the bottom of it:
1. Vitamin D deficiency. I chose this as option 1 because I know this is everyone's immediate goto, but I don't think this is the cause. I've been feeding him the same as I did the past two years. I think it is related to the change in the environment.
2. Dehydration. He is used to the Northern BC cold and humidity (unlike Australia). Though Kamloops is a hot/dry desert. Water evaporates out of his water dish and has to be refilled every second day. He does sit in his water bowl lots.
3. Dust/fur/vape floating in the air. It took 2 weeks for several millimetres of dust and fur to accumulate in his cage. I've moved him into my room where the dust/fur/vape isn't as bad. It had been ~2.5 weeks and his cage is still relatively clean from dust. Though the dust seems to still be bothering him??
4. Pink eye related fungus. I don't think it is pink eye because I don't see a method of contamination (unless it is caused by the dust). Nonetheless this is what my roommate thinks it is. This is why I'm using the silver as eye treatment.
5. Anyone elses ideas?

Please share your experiences with causes and solutions to lizard gooey-eye/mouth problems. It is much appreciated.

Note: There is no exotic vets within my region, hence why I'm writing on here. Please no judgy 'you're a horrible pet owner - take it to the vet' comments. If I take it to the vet, it would be for euthanasia.

Eye issues are usually caused by incorrect uvb or substrate-- pleas tell me what your using for your UVB brand and bulb wherein the tank is it top of screen or inside the tank? Please No Coils-- what are you using for a substrate-

 

[Animalia]

1 month ago photos. First photo, right swollen eye with dried mucus. Second photo, what the right eye looked like after mucus was swabbed out. At first swabbed the eye morning and evening. Then swabbed eye whenever there was dried build-up. Eventually there was no build up. The right eye cleared up after 2 weeks of swabbing and looked fine. After a week or so, the right eye was on/off about being slightly runny or clear. Left eye was clear. No mouth mucus.

Note: For some reason the images are not clear when uploaded to site.

 

[Animalia]

These are the eyes presently. The mouth is mucusy. He opens his mouth so I can remove it.

 

[Sadie]

1 month ago photos. First photo, right swollen eye with dried mucus. Second photo, what the right eye looked like after mucus was swabbed out. At first swabbed the eye morning and evening. Then swabbed eye whenever there was dried build-up. Eventually there was no build up. The right eye cleared up after 2 weeks of swabbing and looked fine. After a week or so, the right eye was on/off about being slightly runny or clear. Left eye was clear. No mouth mucus.

Note: For some reason the images are not clear when uploaded to site.

Yes I see the irritation-- any colored bulbs in the tank--- incorrect lighting uvb and off colored basking bulbs will cause eye issues-- certain mvb's will also cause eye issues-- coils are especially a big issue

 

[Animalia]

Images for type of lighting. This was a $200.00+ set-up. I have a stronger lamp on a stand but I'm always concerned about it being knocked over now that there are additional pets in the house. This one is safer.

It is a UVA/UVB dual canopy top.
120V, 60 hz, 35W Gu10 Halogen. T-8 Fluorescent.

 

[Sadie]

Images for type of lighting. This was a $200.00+ set-up. I have a stronger lamp on a stand but I'm always concerned about it being knocked over now that there are additional pets in the house. This one is safer.

It is a UVA/UVB dual canopy top.
120V, 60 hz, 35W Gu10 Halogen. T-8 Fluorescent.

 

[Sadie]

Wow never heard of those bulbs --- those are in the tank? What distance do you have them at? I would get rid of both bulbs and get one Reptisun 10.0 T 8 bulb--- it looks like there is no reflectors in either fixture-- I would get a reflector for one fixture-- your dragon does not need two UVB bulbs and I am thinking this is the problem - the bulb I recommended is one of the best on the market - if you need a website for the reflector I can give you one-- I am sorry but the set up for that is ridiculous- dragons do not need two UVB's! One good one is sufficient

 

[Animalia]

There is no substrate within the dragon cage, as I did my research before I got him and learned the risks of substrate. In his last cage he had the privilege of tiled flouring.

I believe the placement of the heat lamp is fine (at least the temperature) because he spends maybe 50% of the week under the heat lamp. As in, he will spend a couple days chilling on his tile flooring, then he will spend a couple days hiding, then a couple days in his water bowl. Repeat.

I will eventually expand the length of the second floor. But he seems fine with the space he had. Sometimes he asks to be let out.

Oh, as for the cat photo... Sometimes that happens (she doesn't use her claws). Now she is allowed supervised visits only!

My roommate thought maybe the cat injured his eye causing it to swell. But I'm pretty sure it was dust or hair that got under the eyelid that is now out.

 

[Sadie]

There is no substrate within the dragon cage, as I did my research before I got him and learned the risks of substrate. In his last cage he had the privilege of tiled flouring.

I believe the placement of the heat lamp is fine (at least the temperature) because he spends maybe 50% of the week under the heat lamp. As in, he will spend a couple days chilling on his tile flooring, then he will spend a couple days hiding, then a couple days in his water bowl. Repeat.

I will eventually expand the length of the second floor. But he seems fine with the space he had. Sometimes he asks to be let out.

Oh, as for the cat photo... Sometimes that happens (she doesn't use her claws). Now she is allowed supervised visits only!

My roommate thought maybe the cat injured his eye causing it to swell. But I'm pretty sure it was dust or hair that got under the eyelid that is now out.

I still.think it's the UVB's--

 

[Animalia]

This is the lighting set-up I've had for the last two years with Poe. No issue. I don't think it is a lighting issue. Cause again, this issue didn't arise until after I moved to my new location. If anything, the bulbs might need replacing because they are older.

But maybe the living room had weird bulbs?

 

[Animalia]

Here is a photo of the eye an hour after I swabbed and cleaned it. The eye is looking normal again.

 

[Animalia]

Here is a link to the type of bulbs:

Fluorescent bulbs -

10.0 Fluorescent Desert Terrarium Lamp,15 Watt 18" : Amazon.ca: Pet Supplies

10.0 Fluorescent Desert Terrarium Lamp,15 Watt 18" : Amazon.ca: Pet Supplies

www.amazon.ca

Sun glow -

Home - Exo Terra

We are committed to enriching the lives of reptiles and amphibians through innovative, high-quality habitat solutions. Drawing inspiration from nature, we meticulously design terrariums and accessories that mirror the natural environments of these unique creatures. Exo Terra's mission transcends...

www.exo-terra.com

Dual top canopy -

PT2230 - Exo Terra Dual Top 45 x 9 x 20cm / 17.7" x 3.5" x 7.8"

The Exo Terra Dual Top Canopy is a fluorescent and halogen combination terrarium canopy designed for use with the Exo Terra Glass Terrarium. This dura

usa.hagen.com

 

[Animalia]

I messaged BigApplePetSupply to see if they've had any similar issues from other pet owners. I'll do more research into lighting. Or if the set-up is fine, I'll replace the bulbs and see if that solves the issue. Is it worth investing into night-time lamps?

In case Poe was lacking something in his diet, this is what I've been using:
-Crested Gecko Superfood meal replacement to give him a protein boost. The petshop retailer said that's what they feed their baby bearded dragons as a treat.
-repti-vit with vit D3.
-Once he is back to normal the plan is to alternate between multi-vit (without D3) and repti-vit (with D3) once a week.

Have you seen this ever happen to bearded dragon's from dusty rooms? This is what my gut is telling me.

 

[Animalia]

Yes there is a reflector for both USBs. Maybe it isn't obvious in the photo. I'll replace the bulbs and remove one of the UVBs for a couple weeks and see what happens. I'll also do some research and see if the reptisun 10.0 T 8 Bulbs are compatible with the exo-terra dual canopy top, and replace it with such.

 

[Broly]

I’m so confused. I’ve never seen anything like this before. The whole cage is open? Do you live in an extremely hot location? What temps are you getting with digital probe thermometers?

 

[Sadie]

I would try the Reptisun bulb ---- T 8's only last 6 months -- they need to be replaced -- if they are old they are not likely to be putting out any UVB --- so w/ that being said please try the Reptisun bulb they are like $20 -- something is obviously bothering her I am going to ask some others about those bulbs and what could be causing this issue

 

[HoomanSlave]

If there's a lot of slime in his mouth, it could be mucus from a possible respiratory infection or mouth rot. Runny eyes, beard puffing, wheezing, and black beards are also signs of an RI. If his enclosure is too cool or humid, that could lead to an RI.

Something I noticed is that the cage you are using looks like a cage for small mammals. Is there anything behind the bars to trap heat inside? If not, it might be getting too chilly inside the tank because heat is escaping.

Be careful with feeding the crested gecko diet frequenly since it's very high in fruit and sugar, Oxbow carnivore critical care or Repashy Grub Pie is a pretty good meal replacement to use. You can also toss vegetables and insects or carnivore care into a blender and make him a slurry.

 

[Sadie]

If there's a lot of slime in his mouth, it could be mucus from a possible respiratory infection or mouth rot. Runny eyes, beard puffing, wheezing, and black beards are also signs of an RI. If his enclosure is too cool or humid, that could lead to an RI.

Something I noticed is that the cage you are using looks like a cage for small mammals. Is there anything behind the bars to trap heat inside? If not, it might be getting too chilly inside the tank because heat is escaping.

Be careful with feeding the crested gecko diet frequenly since it's very high in fruit and sugar, Oxbow carnivore critical care or Repashy Grub Pie is a pretty good meal replacement to use. You can also toss vegetables and insects or carnivore care into a blender and make him a slurry.

In response to hooman I agree- I would look at getting him into a reptile cage- I don't think you have correct temps in that tank -- the tank should have temps of basking 95-110 middle of tank 90's and cool side of tank 80's the temps in the tank are crucial for health-- here is a response I got when I reached out in the whole issue
She was not sure about the UVB set up but did comment on the tank set up
I don't know. That's an odd set up though, it would be very hard to keep the proper heat gradient because the heat can only exist in that one spot. It would dissipate everywhere else. Don't know if that has anything to do with the eyes though.
So in respect w/ all the issues going I would look at getting a reptile cage set up so you can get proper heat going and get rid of the double UVB lights go to the one Reptisun bulb and go from there

 

[Animalia]

Correction, I bought Poe from his prior owners in 2016 Sept, 1 yrs old. So he is 5.5 yrs.

His signs seem to fit the description of a Respiratory Illness. Which leads back to my original question, are bearded dragons sensitive to dust or fur in the air? Again, I've had him for approximately 4 years and he hadn't developed this issue until I moved into my new place. So the problem has to be related to his new surroundings.

I'll go through the possible causes list:
1. Too much dust in the air
2. Temperature/humidity
3. Bulbs needing replacing
4. Diet.

1. Too much dust in the air. Yes, with an open cage it is inevitable that air condition within the room is the same for the dragon. I've considered getting an air purifier if that's the case. But I want to know first if anyone else had this issue related to being a basement-dust problem?

2. Temp/humidity. Yes, with an open cage the room temp and humidity correlates with the lizards temp/humidity added to the lighting. I've never had an issue prior. I keep the room at 24C with humidity ~30 (which matches the minimum). His basking area is +30 and basking with rock +40. Summer room gets 30C. Basking 35, rock 45 (he doesn't use rock during summers). Behaviour, he rarely uses his rock unless it is evening or night time. During the day he moves between being under the lamp or just outside the heat rays. He spends an equivalent amount of time basking vs other areas of his cage. Ex, sleeping in his water dish or in his den. In his shaded den temp is equivalent to the room which suits the minimum brumation temp.

Cage set-up: The best set-up for an open cage is to place it in front of a window for natural lighting and heat. I have used two heat lamps in the past to stretch the entire length of the cage. It seemed excessive as he was never under the second lamp. But for experimental purposes, I could give the dual lighting another shot since I'm unable to place the cage in front of a window as per living in a basement. I do plan to expand his second story across the full length of the cage, I could look into adding reflectors or plexy to either side to trap in additional heat. The reason I'm not using a glass cage is because 1) pet shop doesn't sell a large enough glass terrarium, 2) the mark-up price is insane, 3) too bulky and heavy because I move for work and need something compactible. I do own a glass cage which I use for feeding (because it is small) and compared the temp/humidity. I found the difference insignificant. Yes, this is a small mammal cage. Guinea pig to be specific. It even comes with a pen fence which is perfect for Poe as it allows me to leave his cage open so he can run around.

3. As stated before, will order new bulbs.

4. I was only using the crested gecko as a temporary supplement in case diet was the cause. I gave it to him every day for a week tops. I haven't used it since. I'll look into switching it to Oxbow carnivore or repashy grub pie. Food wise, I choose foods based on this website: http://www.thebeardeddragon.org/bearded-dragon-diet.php His vegetables consist of the following: Green peppers, carrot, carrot greens, squash, and celery. I have dry pellets Zoo med bearded dragon food. I feed him medium sized crickets and occasionally worms. For the most part I feed him based on what he has an appetite for. He used to mow down like 50 crickets in one go. But now he prefers his veggies more (like 50/50). Which seems to match what I read about bearded dragon diets changing.

Thanks everyone for your help!!!
I'll give all this a try and check back in several weeks with the result.