8 year old beardie, issue with eyes closing...

[Mikey]

Hi guys

This is my first post on the forum, there are quite a few now it seems, so i hope I’ve chosen the right place!

I’ve had my two beardies for about 8 years now. I have a setup I’m confident with, a diet that works but my first beardie ‘Bruce’ has the symptoms of something I’m not sure of.
About a week ago he started closing both eyes as if he has something wrong with them. Apart from that he seems to be the right colour, he is eating still and can walk around fine. So I’m not sure what the problem is.
I wanted to ask a few questions on here but I’m not going to mention too much about my setup because it can confuse the issue. I’m more interested in experienced owners opinions on what it could be.
I have a decent heat and light area, a UV strip that is about a month old now and a heat mat that they like having on the other end of the viv.
He is booked in to go to the vet tomorrow night, until then i just wanted some ideas on what to discuss with the vet.
Oh and if anyone has experienced this before, some tips on the best way to take them to the vet and also what should i expect when get there?

Thanks guys

Mikey

 

[P]

Im not too knowledgeable on eye issues other than the most basic ones around ...........

Since you dont wan to give details about your setup, makes this very difficult as most eye issues are caused by SOMETHING within the setup.

If you have particle substrate, some of it may have come into the eyes and is causing irritation
Are the eyes swollen? Red? Any fluid or stuff oozing from them, crusted over???????

You said a new strip UVB, what type is it?
If its any other than repti sun or Arcadia it may very well be the culprit.......a bad bulb. SOme bulbs do NOT emit the correct wavelength UVB and causes a conditon similar to conjunctivitis or arc eyes, it is very irritating to the dragon and painfull and thats why they keep their eyes closed to "get away from the harmfull rays"
You could try switching OFF the UVB for a few days and see if theres improvement, a few days w/o it wont harm.

SO basically this is s shot in the dark cos without ALL your husbandry info we really can not comment or suggest what could be wrong...........

 

[Mikey]

Im not too knowledgeable on eye issues other than the most basic ones around ...........

Since you dont wan to give details about your setup, makes this very difficult as most eye issues are caused by SOMETHING within the setup.

If you have particle substrate, some of it may have come into the eyes and is causing irritation
Are the eyes swollen? Red? Any fluid or stuff oozing from them, crusted over???????

You said a new strip UVB, what type is it?
If its any other than repti sun or Arcadia it may very well be the culprit.......a bad bulb. SOme bulbs do NOT emit the correct wavelength UVB and causes a conditon similar to conjunctivitis or arc eyes, it is very irritating to the dragon and painfull and thats why they keep their eyes closed to "get away from the harmfull rays"
You could try switching OFF the UVB for a few days and see if theres improvement, a few days w/o it wont harm.

SO basically this is s shot in the dark cos without ALL your husbandry info we really can not comment or suggest what could be wrong...........

Thank you for the input...i guess the reason i didn’t say much about the setup is that people jump to conclusions and it may get confusing. I was waiting to see some ideas on what could cause that.

You raise some good points, all of which I should look into.
My viv is over 4.5ft long and about 2ft high. Nothing new in there apart from the substrate, which is large wood chip from the reptile shop.
The UVB is the recommended one, I’m sure it is the repti sun brand...i picked this up from the reptile shop also. I think they had two types in there, one had a picture of a beardie, the other had a picture of a chameleon as I think it was a different rating.
I have the heat lamp over there bathing rock, it is a R80 heat spot lamp 100w.
The heat matt is under the viv on the opposite side to the bating rock, it isn’t too hot and they seem to like it where i have some fake ivy/plant hanging from the roof.

Would you require more detail than this?
The diet is regular curly cale, baby corn, tomato, beans of different types....i mix it up, make it varied.
They eat hoppers and morio worms.

 

[Fliehigh]

I Agree with P

This sounds like it is a bad bulb and it is is causing photo-kerato-conjunctivitis
This is basically Welders Flash or snow blindness for Beardies but without knowing your full setup this is just a guess (like P stated above).

I would like you to look at the following link as well as it looks like you are housing you little ones together:
http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/i...ed-co-habitation-a-good-plan.5172/#post-51114
Also check out this site for eye issues related to lighting:
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor-info.htm

 

[Fliehigh]

Do you know if the wood chips are soft wood or are they hard wood?

Soft wood gives off gasses that are harmful when heated....

Did this issue start right after the light or substrate change?
Is the UVB light a Coil (CFL) or is it Linear Tube?

If it is a CFL then I believe that may be the issue. If you follow the link in my last post about light issues and reptile eye problems it iwll explain why the CFL's are casuing so many propblems.

 

[P]

photo-kerato-conjunctivitis . . . Thats the word i was loking for tnx F

Ill have to get back to you as im on my way out the door to meting now, but yes i have some more comments and suggestions

@Fliehigh . . . . Its a linear (see 1st post) BUT i think NOT a repti sun. Repti suns boxing are yellow and red predominantly.

@ Mikey . . . . Go check on the bulb, on one of the ends it should say what brand name it is, Ill check back after my meeting , till then also get me the basking temps and cool temps and what type thermometer do you use.

Even better can you post a pic or two????

 

[Mikey]

I Agree with P

This sounds like it is a bad bulb and it is causing photo-kerato-conjunctivitis
This is basically Welders Flash or snow blindness for Beardies but without knowing your full setup this is just a guess (like P stated above).

I would like you to look at the following link as well as it looks like you are housing you little ones together:
http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/i...ed-co-habitation-a-good-plan.5172/#post-51114
Also check out this site for eye issues related to lighting:
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor-info.htm

The link for the photo-kerato-conjunctivitis was promising. The symptoms seem to match this write up and as the UV strip is new, this could be the problem.
I’ll turn the strip off for today, leaving the heat on obviously. Do you think a trip to the vet is still needed?

I don’t have much to say on the other link, after 8 years I’ve seen no signs of this, quite the opposite in fact. Must be a lucky pair.

Do you know if the wood chips are soft wood or are they hard wood?

Soft wood gives off gasses that are harmful when heated....

Did this issue start right after the light or substrate change?
Is the UVB light a Coil (CFL) or is it Linear Tube?

If it is a CFL then I believe that may be the issue. If you follow the link in my last post about light issues and reptile eye problems it iwll explain why the CFL's are causing so many problems.

It is a UV strip as mentioned. Thanks for the info on the CFL, I’ve never used one myself but good to know.
The substrate is hardwood chip.

photo-kerato-conjunctivitis . . . Thats the word i was loking for tnx F

Ill have to get back to you as im on my way out the door to meting now, but yes i have some more comments and suggestions

@Fliehigh . . . . Its a linear (see 1st post) BUT i think NOT a repti sun. Repti suns boxing are yellow and red predominantly.

@ Mikey . . . . Go check on the bulb, on one of the ends it should say what brand name it is, Ill check back after my meeting , till then also get me the basking temps and cool temps and what type thermometer do you use.

Even better can you post a pic or two????

I’ll try and get a pic or two later, i’ve only just seen this thread when i got into work.
The UVB strip is one of these, although looking at this one, i can’t remember what wattage it is...

Thanks for all the responses.

 

[P]

Yup, thats one of the brands that have a 50/50 chance of getting a BAD one unforunately. Lots of people have success with them and lots dont
Think youre one of the ones who got a BAD bulb

Leave the UV strip off for the rest of the week, the dragons will be fine w/o the UVB for a couple of days. If the eye improves, it was the bulb and youll need to replace it. IF the eyes dont improve Ill get a vet to check him out

Woodchips are a bad substrate , sorry to have to say it. Heres a link on all the substrates and reasons why they are good or bad. Very informative

http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/index.php?threads/my-experiences-with-different-substrates.90

The repti sun looks like this and this is the one youll want to get instead

 

[Mikey]

Yup, that’s one of the brands that have a 50/50 chance of getting a BAD one unfortunately. Lots of people have success with them and lots don’t

Think you’re one of the ones who got a BAD bulb

Leave the UV strip off for the rest of the week, the dragons will be fine w/o the UVB for a couple of days. If the eye improves, it was the bulb and you’ll need to replace it. IF the eyes don’t improve I’ll get a vet to check him out

Woodchips are a bad substrate , sorry to have to say it. Heres a link on all the substrates and reasons why they are good or bad. Very informative

http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/index.php?threads/my-experiences-with-different-substrates.90

The repti sun looks like this and this is the one youll want to get instead

Thanks very much for this...the issue does seem to fit well with the description of the symptoms.
I don’t like having to take my beardies on outings, especially to the vet and also because in the UK right now we’re seeing minus temps outside!
Sadly the dedicated reptile shop has closed, leaving a pet store (pets at home) these Repti Glo strips are the only brand they sell.
I still have my old strip under my bed just in case, i know it is a little old but do you think I could pop that back in after a few days with it off?

I know the substrate issues. I have been using a small wood chip for some time now and my beardies seem to get on with it. Since only having this other pet store as an option, they have the same wood but in larger size. The newspaper sounds good, it’s also what the pet store uses.
Maybe I’ll move onto this...my two are going to miss digging!

 

[P]

You can use the Arcadia UVB linear tube UVB lights if youre in the UK. Theyre amazing and better than the repti sun ones. Im not sure on where they would sell them but Im sure if you google retailers youll find an online shop in the UK that ships them.
The repti sun lights most buy online from pet mountain, but im not sure if they ship to the UK tho...........

If the eyes improve with the bulb off, yes you can put the old one back for a little while, just make sure the eyes are 100% back to normal 1st. Then the old one will help till your new one is shipped.

As for the substrate change, yea theyll miss digging, but you can make a compromise there also
Some people whos dragons like to dig at times partition off a certain part of the viv and fill it with sand, just a small area like a digging box. And then you can use newspaper or even tile the reaining part of the viv. That way they have a "clean" particle free area for food dish and water and they can go dig when the mood hits them.
Just be sure to use the normal washed and sifted childrens play sand, its cheap and the safest to use if youre going to go "particle"

This is the Arcadia bulb i mentioned

Heres a link on where distributors are
http://www.arcadia-uk.info/distributors.php?mid=&lan=en&id=19&lan=en

Heres a link on where retailers are
http://www.arcadia-uk.info/retail_locator.php?mid=&lan=en&id=2&lan=en

 

[Em Lynch]

I'm in the U.K and I've got that 12% uvb bulb, its great the bulb was 24.99 where i bought it

 

[jessica domke]

it most definately sounds like photo-kerato-conjunctivitis. my beardie has had it b4! when he wuz lil, i had him in a 10 gallon tank & had just bought a repti-glo 10.0 uv linear tube. turns out it wuz the darn light..the light wuz 2 strong 4 such a small enclosure & 2 close 2 his basking limb. 1st he started closing his eyes all the time & wuz still eating fine. but after awhile(can't remember how long it wuz) he started 2 get a clear gooey gel in both eyes. so i did A TON of research, on every site i could find. tried 2 rinse his eyes out w/sterile saline salution, helped some..but the goo wuz still there. i wuz getting worried & bout ready 2 make a vet appointment, when i finally came across a couple different sites stating 2 use terramycin ointment. i put it on a q-tip, applied it 2 both eyes & after a few weeks, the eye infection went away. & of course i tried taking out the uv bulb 4 a few days, but it didn't get better so i took the bulb back & got a repti-sun 5.0 uv linear tube. i would definately try the terramycin ointment, i ordered mine off ebay 4 pretty cheap & it did the trick, never had a problem since! hope this helps!

 

[Mikey]

Thanks for all the input in this thread guys.
My two beardies seems a lot better now I’ve taken the 10.0 UVB strip out.
It’s strange as this is the only time this has happened and i swear I’ve had this kind of strip light before. As mentioned earlier in this thread, perhaps it was just a bad one.

For now the weaker strip is in there, I’ll buy another one come pay day.

Mikey

 

[Germ]

Glad you were able to get it straightened out for them.

I have also used many Repti-Glo 10 Tubes, but without issue. Have read a few that have had problems though, but think many of them stemmed more from improper set up. Any kind can have a bad bulb or two periodically.