My beardie is either smoking pot OR?........

[pamela simko]

Slowly I have been switching from frogs to lizards of late, and I just got a beardie three weeks ago.
I got the UVA and UVB lights, as well as allowing him a low shelf in front of the window to reach high temps and guarantee some natural light as well as unbridled freedom.
I feed him superworms, as he is a juvenille, maybe five months.

He eats when I put the worm in his face, he won't chase it down. He has, but only twice.
He poops on schedule. He gets the light and food he needs, including romaine lettuce.
I'm doing everything that I've been told, but he's lazy
Really lazy. Doesn't want to run around unless I bring him outside. Only stands up to bask, and at night, it is as if he is dead. He sleeps like the dead.
What's more concerning is that he sleeps like the dead ON ME.

I, as well, sleep like the dead, and he lays on my chest, which he will crawl on, and just pass out.
He is one of three things
1) Malnourished
2) More docile than I could ever have imagined
3) In love with me? I don't know, help me out here......

I have a frog that is super lazy too, had him about five years. He likes to sit on me. That's fine.
But this beardie, he's really lazy. He has a whole shelf to bask on during the day, and doesn't move one bit. He could stalk the worms, but doesn't want to. Wants to be fed. That is the idea that I get.

So, being a beginner and admitting moronitude with beardies, despite expertise with frogs and toads, I defer to you smart people that probably have an idea what's the matter.
I only assume that he's lazy bc I'm doing all the stuff that I was told to do, and he still loves to just relax.
But, I'm probably wrong. So, what do you think......

Is my beardie......on drugs......or just lazy......or sick......I don't know. Please help me.
It's been an enchanted three weeks and I don't wanna lose him.
I'm forever in your debt. Thank you.

 

[timbalan]

Whst kind of uvb are u using? what are your temps. Basking/cool side. It could be brumation. I just got mine about a month ago and he was kinda the same way. Could be stress as well. Some people say they can be sressed for up to 2 weeks but mine still has stress marks when hes in the cage and doesnt run around all crazy but the second i take him out his sress marks go away. He also wasnt big on eating until just about a week ago. Still isnt up to what a baby should be eating but were getting there. Mine refuses to eat if anyone is within eye shot from him. We have to completely leave the room then he will eat. As long as your temps and light is ok he should come around with a little more time.

 

[pamela simko]

I've got the 50 watt UVA and for the love of me, I can't remember the B, but I was told it was the STRONGEST one. That's why I got it.
I'm telling you, money isn't an object with this creature. I'll buy whatever you suggest, if there is a product.

But, if it's stress, there isn't much that I can do, huh?

It doesn't seem that he's stressed. He really does act, basically, high. Like a human when they're high. Not unhappy, just lazy and hungry.

But, hearing the weird behavior of Timbalan's dragon, I realize that it COULD definitely be stress. He similarly DOES seem to be getting better, as far as the lazy goes. And I know that I take getting used to - that's what people say, so why not dragons?

Since I have the alotted money for Bob the Dragon, I could take him to the vet, but that is one stressful ride to the next city up......I don't know if it's serious enough to warrant that.

I do believe that Timbaland's suggestion sounds plausible. I'm ready to believe in that, unless somebody else has other theories, and I thank you Timbaland. I hope my lizard "grows into me" , so to speak.

He loves sitting on the laptop while I type. It's so cute. Why is he looking at the screen? Anyway, thank you for the advice so far. Seems valid to me.

 

[PatsyB]

Welcome Pamela! I also started with frogs and moved to lizards a little over a year ago. I have 5 whites tree frogs and 2 bearded dragons. This is a great link for nutritious foods to feed your beardies http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html One of my beardies is 14 months old and she has always been extremely lazy. She will sit in her hammock all day long. She's not a big hunter so she will wait to be hand fed her crickets, she gets a little more excited about super worms though and will SOMETIMES chase after them. You'll also see if you read some other posts, they LOVE to sleep on you! They will burry their noses in your neck they will eat your hair they will climb your head! It's just something they do. They also sleep like the dead! You'll see all our funny pictures of the strange positions we've found our babies.

It used to bother me that she was so lazy until I recently got a second beardie. My second one is about a month old and full of piss and vinegar! Runs around the tank all day long. I want to put a pedometer on her back, I bet she does well over 10,000 steps a day! She also doesn't want to be held and will flare out her little tiny beard and tries to bite me! So now my lazy girl that wants to just chill with me doesn't seem so bad

 

[pamela simko]

Oh wow! What a charmed life!
Yeah, I don't mind having the Tommy Chong of beardies. That is actually fine with me. But having had frogs so long, I thought, "this can't be right". My frogs would have been escaping everywhere. (Except my smooth sided toad, who digs sleeping on me too).

Well, you are all so welcoming and nice. Thank you for the advice thus far. Now, are there any things that I should look out for - behaviors that would change "lazy" to "infirmed, ill, injured, or something I should worry about for whatever reason"?

I am very perceptive with his behavior, and as I said, he poops and eats normal, but is just lazy for the time being.

What should I look out for, as far as new behaviors that would signify something more serious than simple sedentary lizard behavior?



-*Btw, me and Bob just had our first photo shoot outside. He's the best model I've had yet!

 

[atochats]

All i can really offer is that for a 5 month old dragon to be in brumation sounds a bit odd to me. It's too young. The ONLY uv light source I would use is Zoo Med brand Reptisun 10.0 I personally bought a under the cabinet fixture for it, threw away the plastic " light diffuser thingy" that covers the bulb, and replaced the bulb it came with with the Reptisun. I mounted it inside the tank with heavy duty double sided tape. Keep In mind that the distance from the bulb, and keeping obstructions away between the bulb and the beardie are important. Basking temp inside the tank is important for digestion and general health. Bright white light keeps their eyesight sharp. The other side of the tank should be their "cool" side which is where a hide and their food dish can go. NO light and yes to cooler temps during the night let them rest and this is very important. Beardies can be very lazy/ affectionate/ laid back which adds to their appeal I suppose. They actually enjoy spending time with us which is awesome! Sorry for rambling lol. Oh, and a timer for your lights is very helpful 12on and 12off is good. Take pics of your set up and post this will be very helpful for additional/ more specific advice! Welcome to the forum! (I have learned boatloads of beardie info here)

 

[pamela simko]

ok, cool.
i'm going out to buy a basking rock, you know the heated rock that they hang out on, in an hour, so when i come back with it i'll take pictures of him in his setup and post them.
thanks so much.
soon, you'll meet bob. yay!

 

[PatsyB]

Don't buy an actual heating rock!!!!! Heated rocks get too hot and can burn your beardie. Just a basking rock or wood that would get them 6-8" from the basking light would suffice.

 

[PatsyB]

My word of advise is try not to freak out over every little thing they do. They are very hearty lizards and usually what we think is odd behavior is perfectly normal for them. As long as they are eating good, pooping (they can sometimes go for a week without pooping) and alert and bright eyed (even though they are just sitting in one spot of the tank) everything should be fine.

Can't wait to see pics of Bob!

 

[atochats]

Patsy is right..NO HEATING ROCK! The regular rock or branch when placed under the basking light will warm up on it's own. Don't burn your beardie! Also, two thermometers is a good idea. One for the hot side..one for the cool side. The digital ones with probes work well. Place the probes exactly where the dragon is...a thermometer just hangin out on the wall of your tank is pretty much pointless.

 

[Germ]

Welcome to the BD community Pamela,

Some good links that you may find useful to get started off right ...
Basic Bearded Dragon Care Guide - A Place To Start
UVB Setup
Temp Guns
Bearded Dragon - Exclusive Care Info Library
Is Bearded Dragon Cohabitation A Good Plan?
What's Good & Not So Good To Feed - Beautiful Dragon's Nutrition Guide

 

[pamela simko]

Why won't it let me insert a picture?

 

[Augie]

Welcome Pamela!

I strongly recommend you review all the links that Germ provided above. It's critical to research all care info as soon as possible, and more than likely they will answer any questions you have (and maybe some you haven't thought to ask ). It sounds like you generally care about Bob's well being, which is a great start!

Happy to help answer some of the questions you do have:
1. Dragons don't always chase down their food. They also don't typically hunt or stalk prey. It is possible to spoil them by hand-feeding, and they can get spoiled incredibly quickly.
2. Read the diet info in the link provided. Romaine lettuce is a poor choice for greens. Feed the green colored items on the list.
3. Overall dragons aren't really active, especially as they get older. Also, once they conk out to sleep, they are pretty much limp.
4. If you don't have a temp probe, get one. Set the probe at the basking spot for your dragon. Ensure temps are good on both the hot and cool side. You want the environment set up so that Bob can self-regulate his body temp.
5. Natural light is a nice touch, but make sure it doesn't impact the temps too much. Your dragon can die really quickly if left in the wrong environment. All it takes is one hot day, and it doesn't take long (I live in Texas, which can get hot quick). Also keep in mind it's not a substitute for a UVB bulb because the tank glass filters out the good rays they need.
6. Heat rocks - just say no! Dragons want their heat from above, not below. If I remember correctly they don't have heat receptors on their belly and can burn before they know to move off the rock.

 

[ravenwolf]

It sounds like you are doing all the right things, the above links are fantastic and really helped me out when I was first starting out, all beardies are unique, my 3 are quite lazy most of the time they just bask. Twix started out refusing to eat veg and would only eat live foods if I basically hand fed him with the feeding tongs, these days he is happy to Chase down food and eats veg no problem

 

[pamela simko]

Hi,
I tried a few times to upload a pic, but it won't let me.
But I have also an answer to the problem, that I wouldn't have even noticed.

Okay, I don't keep animals in cages. Well, some of them. But if they're trust-worthy, I generally don't.
So, I didn't have a cage for beardie. I have him on a shelf in front of the window. I have the lights shining down on the shelf. There's the basking branch I got for him. There's a curtain around it to keep the light from hitting me, as I'm totally a vampire, and not in the sparkly stupid teenage romance way, I just hate light.

Anyway, as with my anole and turtle who share the setup, he hangs out all day, doesn't move much. Just likes to sit.
(The anole has a 20 inch tether that he's quite used to though, Anoles aren't the sitting still type)

The guy at the pet store who told me NOT TO BUY A HEAT ROCK, also said that I may not be getting the temps due to heat escaping my setup, bc of no cage, right?
The anole is cool with it bc he's from Cuba, which isn't desert hot. But Beardies need it hotter.

So my problem, was not having a tank. I still don't like that I need one, and truth be told, I doubt that I'll force him to be in there too much. But I have an extra 20 gal that I'll start using.

Also, at Petco, there's a heat/humidity gauge that keeps those two things in check for fifty bucks. I think that's a great deal, and as I said, this animal would get gold plated crickets if he really wanted them - does Haggen Daas make a Cricket Crunch variety? - I'd buy it for him.

Anyway, I think that with a Tank and the Gauge, I'll have everything perfect. I live in Florida, and the sill gets hot, maybe 100 degrees, but probably not. So, that's what my problem might be.

Any thoughts? And please, don't judge about my aversion to tanks, I've heard it all before, and I literally have never had a "break out" situation where the animal hasn't ever been found, at least not since I adopted the "honor system" window. (I know it sounds nuts, but with lizards, it works - frogs, not so much.)

 

[pamela simko]

Oh, here, my picture is working today. Good, this is the edge of the shelf where the light meets the window. I took the pic without the basking branch and stuff to give a better gauge of how wide against the sill that it is. He has plenty of room there.
So, usually there's a branch and an anole. There's also generally the turtle's water tank, who beardie prefers to bath in rather than an actual bowl - don't know why.
But that's it rather stripped down so that you can see that all of that space is what's making the heat escape. RIght?

 

[pamela simko]

And here's Bob (Drake, I don't know which is better), in a tree. I take him out a lot. So that he gets ACTUAL sunlight. I do it with all the animals, and the only one that ever hopped away was a very whiley chubby frog that now lives on my back porch.
Walks are good for them, right?

 

[pamela simko]

Oh, and here's the dragon and anole together. On their branch. I realize that taking a picture into the sun with noon day light backlighting it doesn't make for greatly detailed subjects, but I have no good way around that.
Anyway, I guess that I just wanted to show off my little guys.
I'll shut up now, and let the good advice take center stage. Have at it.

 

[atochats]

I understand that your preference to not contain your pets is obviously very important to you, and I will try to be as respectful as I can. The whole reason TO contain a pet like this is to provide safety, security, and all the physical and mental needs they have. In short, I dont see any way to properly take care and keep him healthy without being inside of an enclosure. He can't even chase down a roach or cricket because his PREY has too much freedom to get away. If money truly is no object...get yourself a custom built 75+ gallon enclosure, beautiful wooden frame with wiring in all the right places for lights to go, proper substrate, basking area, hiding area, 2 digital thermometers with probes to accurately keep temps on both sides in check, access to crix, dubias, and proper worms as protein source, a fridge well stocked with fresh dark greens, a herp vet that is accessible just in case one is needed, and begin following Germ's and Augie's reference material. A 20 gallon is MUCH too small for him. Sometimes what we think is best for another creature...simply isn't. Just by bringing him into your home, you have drastically altered his "natural" way of life permanently. It is our responsibility to re-create these "natural" environments to the best of our ability...and IMO the only way to do this is inside an enclosure. Our environment, much as we try to bend and twist it, just can't sustain a creature that needs something so drastically different. Take him out OFTEN this is AWESOME!! But let him have a home to go back to which will satisfy his needs and be stress free. Good luck...I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but doing what's best for him is what's important...I think you want to do that which is why you're here in the first place

 

[Germ]

Placing him in front of a window, does not give him natural sunlight, he does not get what he needs from the sun which is UVB, as it can not pass through a solid filter such as glass or plastic. Periodic outdoor excursions does help but is not sufficient coverage. The sun's heat also can be magnified by the glass causing drastic heat spikes that can be quite dangerous. That coil bulb in one of the pics, that could be a UVB bulb, is no where near close enough to be effective.

BD's in captivity, should have a specifically controlled environment, in order to be provided with a long & healthy life. This is not possible running free throughout the house 24/7.

Not to sound judgmental, but to share your home freely with all these critters, while sounding nice, humanitarian & loving, would not be a sanitary situation at all for anyone involved. BDs & other reptiles generally can carry a certain amount of salmonella & is why we should always wash our hands after handling. It is said that sanitary practices when handling these guys should be compared to handling raw chicken. And to live with their droppings wherever they choose around the home, even if caught & picked up immediately, really is unhealthy for all involved.

Just my $.02 worth