Juvie or Sub-Adult

[Kuhli]

I can't really decide between starting with a juvenile or a sub adult dragon. I'm mainly concerned about the diet. I really wouldn't have the time to feed 60 crickets to a juvenile everyday, and I absolutely hate live crickets and my parents hate roaches so dubia are out of the question too. But would superworms or some other worm be a good stable diet for a juvenile, and how many of those would I feed per day?
For a sub adult, what's their diet? If a bearded dragon is sold as a sub adult wouldn't that mean it would be eating 80% veggies and 20% insects, or is that just adults?


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[Anthony Radford]

The 80/20 ratio isn't a "set in stone" mix, just a generalization, an opinion said by one person and it stuck. There are no studies etc that support that ratio. Regardless of size, they do need their insects- their protein. The veggies help a lot with other necessary nutrients and vitamins, plus it's a lot cheaper and good to appease the bigger appetites.

That said- crickets aren't the best feeder IMO, whereas I really like Dubias. In human comparison, Dubias are like eating a steak or hamburger, crickets are like French fries. BIG difference. My other favorite staple are BSFL, or Phoenix worms/repot worms/Calci worms. They are really good in calcium content, and lower in chitin than meal worms and superworms. Meal worms are extremely high in chitin, and don't digest well, could even cause impaction. Superworms are lower in chitin but high in fat. They compare to 2 sausage egg & cheese biscuits, and should be a treat, not a staple. In excess, they don't tend to digest well.

Roaches- commonly misunderstood. People tend to relate them to the cockroaches that infest homes. Not even a possibility here. They are not of breeding age, plus they don't breed with other species. Typically, they are bred purely for feeding, so they are bred in clean and controlled environments. No parasites, insecticides, healthy and clean. I would recommend doing a quick google search on them and self educate, then talk to your parents about them. They really are one of the best choices for healthy, hearty feeding. Plus easy to house!

 

[mxw0rld]

If you don't have time to feed your beardie 3 times a day then maybe a bearded dragon isn't for you as they require a lot of attention and time. You have to ask yourself the key questions.

Financially can you do it - at first it is a big investment to get everything they need but then it's just maintenance after that. The food can be expensive unless you start your own colony. The vet - can you afford to take the beardie to the vet. An animal IMO is just like a child and needs doctor care.

The time - do you have the time to feed your beardie, bath your beardie, walk or take him outside, as they need sun every day. Basically spend time with him. I spend every hour I can with mine, unless he is under the lights.

Are you prepared to take 10-14 years of your life and devote to your beardie. I see every day where people post 2 year old beardies on craigslist cuz their kids doesn't want it anymore or they don't have the time for it.

That being said you've got great advice about the feeders as I can tell you that at least 80% of all adult beardies don't eat their greens and we feed the greens too our feeders so that way the beardie gets the greens. You have to think about this - in the wild a dragon will eat whatever it can find. They are not going to say no to a mouse and go look for a dandelion! Besides they need protein especially ones that are still growing. There is no set amount that they eat. One beardie might eat 10 dubia's whereas the same exact age beardie might eat 24 dubia's. So you can't go by a number. They eat what they want in a 10-15 minute time frame.

I think you need to do more research, maybe go to the library and check out a few books or go to the pet stores and look around at them and all the stuff they need. I'm glad that you are asking these questions before jumping in and not being prepared.

 

[RaeAnn]

If you don't have time to feed your beardie 3 times a day then maybe a bearded dragon isn't for you as they require a lot of attention and time. You have to ask yourself the key questions.

Financially can you do it - at first it is a big investment to get everything they need but then it's just maintenance after that. The food can be expensive unless you start your own colony. The vet - can you afford to take the beardie to the vet. An animal IMO is just like a child and needs doctor care.

The time - do you have the time to feed your beardie, bath your beardie, walk or take him outside, as they need sun every day. Basically spend time with him. I spend every hour I can with mine, unless he is under the lights.

Are you prepared to take 10-14 years of your life and devote to your beardie. I see every day where people post 2 year old beardies on craigslist cuz their kids doesn't want it anymore or they don't have the time for it.

That being said you've got great advice about the feeders as I can tell you that at least 80% of all adult beardies don't eat their greens and we feed the greens too our feeders so that way the beardie gets the greens. You have to think about this - in the wild a dragon will eat whatever it can find. They are not going to say no to a mouse and go look for a dandelion! Besides they need protein especially ones that are still growing. There is no set amount that they eat. One beardie might eat 10 dubia's whereas the same exact age beardie might eat 24 dubia's. So you can't go by a number. They eat what they want in a 10-15 minute time frame.

I think you need to do more research, maybe go to the library and check out a few books or go to the pet stores and look around at them and all the stuff they need. I'm glad that you are asking these questions before jumping in and not being prepared.

I completely agree with this response. You could try to obtain an adult but even than they do need a lot of attention. It's just not as simple as placing a salad in a cage and leaving for the day.

They need insects to survive. You could get BSFL (aka Phoenix worms and calci worms) they make a good stable. But even than you have to take the time to get the worms out and clean any substrate off of them before feeding them to your Beardie. I have actually found that this takes me longer to do than feeding roaches (and crickets when I use to). And to be honest a dragon is going to be much better off if it is provided a variety of insects. Not just strictly worms all of the time. If you can't provide more variety and you don't have the time to sit down and feed/work with an animal it may not be the right time to obtain one. That's ok though. You can use this time to do more research and better prepare yourself for a future companion.



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[BeardedDragon's°For°Life]

Silk Worms and Phoenix Worms are good worm staples

 

[Kuhli]

The 80/20 ratio isn't a "set in stone" mix, just a generalization, an opinion said by one person and it stuck. There are no studies etc that support that ratio. Regardless of size, they do need their insects- their protein. The veggies help a lot with other necessary nutrients and vitamins, plus it's a lot cheaper and good to appease the bigger appetites.

That said- crickets aren't the best feeder IMO, whereas I really like Dubias. In human comparison, Dubias are like eating a steak or hamburger, crickets are like French fries. BIG difference. My other favorite staple are BSFL, or Phoenix worms/repot worms/Calci worms. They are really good in calcium content, and lower in chitin than meal worms and superworms. Meal worms are extremely high in chitin, and don't digest well, could even cause impaction. Superworms are lower in chitin but high in fat. They compare to 2 sausage egg & cheese biscuits, and should be a treat, not a staple. In excess, they don't tend to digest well.

Roaches- commonly misunderstood. People tend to relate them to the cockroaches that infest homes. Not even a possibility here. They are not of breeding age, plus they don't breed with other species. Typically, they are bred purely for feeding, so they are bred in clean and controlled environments. No parasites, insecticides, healthy and clean. I would recommend doing a quick google search on them and self educate, then talk to your parents about them. They really are one of the best choices for healthy, hearty feeding. Plus easy to house!

I did a lot of research on dubias but the thing is my parents know they wont invest the house they just really dont like roaches in general. If something has the word roach in its name its out of the question[emoji29]
Phoenix worms sound awesome though


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[Kuhli]

So is it even possible for a bearded dragon to eat 50 phoenix worms in 10-15 minutes? That doesn't sound right so I'm not concerned with insects anymore[emoji846]


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[Kuhli]

If you don't have time to feed your beardie 3 times a day then maybe a bearded dragon isn't for you as they require a lot of attention and time. You have to ask yourself the key questions.

Financially can you do it - at first it is a big investment to get everything they need but then it's just maintenance after that. The food can be expensive unless you start your own colony. The vet - can you afford to take the beardie to the vet. An animal IMO is just like a child and needs doctor care.

The time - do you have the time to feed your beardie, bath your beardie, walk or take him outside, as they need sun every day. Basically spend time with him. I spend every hour I can with mine, unless he is under the lights.

Are you prepared to take 10-14 years of your life and devote to your beardie. I see every day where people post 2 year old beardies on craigslist cuz their kids doesn't want it anymore or they don't have the time for it.

That being said you've got great advice about the feeders as I can tell you that at least 80% of all adult beardies don't eat their greens and we feed the greens too our feeders so that way the beardie gets the greens. You have to think about this - in the wild a dragon will eat whatever it can find. They are not going to say no to a mouse and go look for a dandelion! Besides they need protein especially ones that are still growing. There is no set amount that they eat. One beardie might eat 10 dubia's whereas the same exact age beardie might eat 24 dubia's. So you can't go by a number. They eat what they want in a 10-15 minute time frame.

I think you need to do more research, maybe go to the library and check out a few books or go to the pet stores and look around at them and all the stuff they need. I'm glad that you are asking these questions before jumping in and not being prepared.

I have the time to spend with a bearded dragon, most likely 3-4 hours a day if the dragon wants to stay out that long. Taking it outside isnt an issue either since I did a lot of bearded dragon research outside anyway[emoji846]. Financially, I would definitely start a phoenix worm colony and vet trips are fine but if a surgery is needed for some reason that could be a big nuisance to my parents. I think I just need to think about this a little more. Leopard geckos are cool.


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[RaeAnn]

They can stuff down quite a lot in 10min. My girl averages about 100 insects a day and I cut her off way before 10min (she's quick!) however she is still growing. An adult dragon shouldn't eat that many a day. They are not growing and face the risk of obesity and other health issues if over fed. If you have that much time and feel confident that you are ready, an adult bearded dragon would be a great fit. Please don't think anyone here is against you getting a dragon, there are so many out there in need of good homes. We just all want to be sure it will be well cared for before we recommend you obtain one, and your original post made it sound as if you wouldn't be around very often.

When you have some free time research adult bearded dragons and the care they require and see if you think this would be a good companion for you.

I haven't herd of a lot of people breeding Phoenix worms mostly because they are the larvae of black soldier flys (which are creepy lol). But you can order them in bulk at a fair price. And you can also throw in some silkworms and even super worms once in awhile to provide variety.
Wishing you the best of luck in your search for the perfect pet/friend.


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[mxw0rld]

So is it even possible for a bearded dragon to eat 50 phoenix worms in 10-15 minutes? That doesn't sound right so I'm not concerned with insects anymore[emoji846]


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My Wally can eat close to 50 of those in less than 5 mins. They are small. He would eat more if I gave him more but after 50 I cut him off but he also gets dubia's and he does eat his salad.

As far as a colony of Phoenix worms that would be hard and very expensive start up. The equipment alone is $200.00 plus (I looked into it). BSFL - is the correct name - Phoenix worms is a brand of those. BSFL - black soldier fly larvae. Don't think your parents would want that in their house. I personally would rather have the roaches! Lol

As far as time, my day starts at 7am with him. He gets up with the sun and goes down with the sun. I have a timer that turns his lights on and off but if I'm not there when he opens his eyes he will be grumpy for the entire day. So I get up with him and rub his back, then go make his salad and by the time I come back he has pooped - boy can that be stinky! Hard to clean at times! But I did find a special cleaner that can be used while he is in his enclosure. A little easier to clean up now but still smells! Lol then in about 2 hours or less he needs to eat breakfast. After breakfast is when I can have some time as I let him sit for 2 hours under the lights to digest his food and by that time the sun is usually out on my porch so we go outside for a few hours. Then it's lunch time and I do take him out with his leash or I've got a little bed for him with a heating pad and blanket so when I've got paperwork or emails I put him in his bed and I turn on the basking light I have on the couch and he sits with me while I do my thing but I'm talking with him and rubbing his back. Then it's dinner time and back under the lights for 2 hours then bath time and after bath every night he cuddles with me anywhere from 1 hour to 3 hours. Then I put him in his bed. I devote this time to him because I want a companion and bearded dragons are the best lizard out there for companionship but if you don't put the time in he's just not going to be my friend. It takes time and hard work. If you want a baby, juvie, or sub-adult those would all still be growing and need the attention well even an adult would need the attention especially a rescued one. Which if you rescued one that would take time and a lot of work for it to trust you and learn it's new environment but it's not impossible. There are so many adult bearded dragons that people don't want anymore that need good homes it breaks my heart to see all these adults that people want to just get rid of.

As far as a leopard gecko you are right those are cool! I just went to the reptile show and fell in love with them. Their colors and patterns are amazing! The thing I liked about them is they require NO UVB/UVA bulbs just a heating pad to sit on. The bulbs at first can be costly so I was like WOW, no bulbs!! Lol and they are friendly. The guy let my 4 year old grandson hold one. They do eat the same bugs as the bearded dragons but other than the enclosure set up and what they eat I personally know nothing about them.

My advice to you is seriously think about this and what you want out of the pet. And can you devote 10 plus years? If you can then maybe an adult bearded dragon rescue might be better fit as they don't require as many bugs! Lol

I do hope you keep us posted on what you decide to do. Like I said before I appreciate you asking these questions and getting advice before just getting the lizard (either one) and not being prepared. So kudos to you for being smart and asking for advice! I wish more people would be like you.

 

[Hdrydr31]

You have gotten a ton of great advise so far.. Just do your research and know that every dragon is different some are great about eating their greens and their bugs, some refuse to eat their greens so you have to feed a good variety of bugs and feed the bugs the greens so they get some of the goodies, as well as doing a variety of supplements that can help with the nutrients that they would be getting if they ate what they were supposed to... Then you can also have a dragon that is eating fine then all of a sudden decide they don't want to eat like normal anymore...
Ask whatever you need as we have a ton of great people here that just want to help... but yes it's has it's advantages on having an adult but then again having a baby also has it's advantages...

 

[Kuhli]

Thanks everyone! I think I've decided on an adult beardy, the only reason I was asking about juvies was because adult beardies are like $120 but if I can rescue one for a lot cheaper that's a plus. Besides someone said their adult beardy eats 5-6 insects a day which is completely duable.
I don't mind putting a lot of effort into taming a reptile, and I wouldn't even mind if I got a grumpy dragon who hates the world[emoji38]
And I've been doing research for months, I have caresheets written down and basically memorized and I understand heat and uvb bulbs, vitamins d and calcium supplements, the risks of sand, enclosure size, introducing to other pets, etc, etc. I think an adult beardy would be perfect (and I heard adults were better for beginners too)


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[RaeAnn]

Thanks everyone! I think I've decided on an adult beardy, the only reason I was asking about juvies was because adult beardies are like $120 but if I can rescue one for a lot cheaper that's a plus. Besides someone said their adult beardy eats 5-6 insects a day which is completely duable.
I don't mind putting a lot of effort into taming a reptile, and I wouldn't even mind if I got a grumpy dragon who hates the world[emoji38]
And I've been doing research for months, I have caresheets written down and basically memorized and I understand heat and uvb bulbs, vitamins d and calcium supplements, the risks of sand, enclosure size, introducing to other pets, etc, etc. I think an adult beardy would be perfect (and I heard adults were better for beginners too)


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That is great! I'm glad to hear you decided to go with an adult and you have done so much research. With so much dedication I think you will make a fine owner to a Beardie in need of a good home. Keep us posted and when you do find one feel free to ask any questions you need. Wishing you the best of luck!


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[mxw0rld]

I'm so happy you decided to adopt/rescue an adult beardie!!! Way to go!! I think with all the research you've done you will be an excellent beardie mommy! I can tell you care about pets and your soon to be beardie with all the questions and concerns you have now.

When you do get your beardie it would be great if you could post pictures so we can see your new baby!

If you have ANY questions or concerns just ask, there are a lot of people on here with great advice and knowledge.

Congrats on your decision and I can't wait to see your new baby!!

 

[Kuhli]

I'm so happy you decided to adopt/rescue an adult beardie!!! Way to go!! I think with all the research you've done you will be an excellent beardie mommy! I can tell you care about pets and your soon to be beardie with all the questions and concerns you have now.

When you do get your beardie it would be great if you could post pictures so we can see your new baby!

If you have ANY questions or concerns just ask, there are a lot of people on here with great advice and knowledge.

Congrats on your decision and I can't wait to see your new baby!!

Haha thanks[emoji4] I've got another question about lights but that should go in another sub forum.


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[Anthony Radford]

Haha thanks[emoji4] I've got another question about lights but that should go in another sub forum.


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Feel free to ask your lighting question, I'll answer the best I can.