Introductions and hopes for advice!

[Jon Macintosh]

I've been reading up on bearded dragons for weeks now and my girlfriend and I finally decided to make the purchase and "go for the gold".​

As of this morning I've had the little guy/girl for four days now.​

​

I know it's far more recommended to NOT purchase reptiles from a local pet store (Petsmart in my case), but it was our only local option.​

That being said I did visit the vet who informed me that he/she is looking healthy, alert, and is around 4 months of age. (Again, I don't know how accurate that information is seeing as how this wasn't a hep vet, but he seemed to know a fair amount about them.)​

​

On to my actual question:​

​

Petsmart informed me that they feed their dragons twice a day and only two insects each time (crickets or mealworms).​

​

This seemed INCREDIBLY low to me and every place online agreed with my thoughts < including you.​

​

The first day he/she didn't take to eating and simply basked under the heat lamp.​

The second day he/she got moving around and checked out the surroundings, licking things to get accustomed to them.​

^ it was the second day that he/she actually ate a few crickets, but only five. (Would only eat two in the morning and three at night)​

Yesterday (the third day) he/she ate a total of eleven crickets. (I've been putting them in two at a time.)​

This morning he/she ate five crickets and a mealworm.​

​

My question is, should I continue to allow him/her to eat as much as he/she wants or continually increase the diet, but slowly, since Petsmart only fed a grand total of four a day?​

---Side note--- He/she has been active and alert and seems to be rather enjoying their new setting! I was thrilled to see that he/she wasn't stressed by the move nearly as much as preempted! --​

​

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!​

​

Thank you,​

​

Jon Macintosh​

​

(btw - we've named him/her Merlin!)​

 

[gilliesexotics]

Hi, Welcome to the forums and cute little dragon you have there.

Answer: They are growing machines and should be allowed to eat as much as they can 2-3 times a day. Typically should result in a couple dozen total feeders a day. Remove any remaining crickets at night. Now is the time to also introduce veggies. Lots of leafy greens

Tip: If you havent done so. I would recommend bathing your dragon every other day in warm water up to his or hers arm pits. This will keep your young one well hydrated.

Also, am i seeing a red heat light?

 

[Germ]

General feeding/supplementation schedule:
For hatchlings and young juveniles (up to 2 months): Fresh greens/veg. 1-2 times daily - Live prey 2-3 times per day
Dusted: All Live Prey five days per week with phosphorus free calcium – one day per week calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

For juveniles and sub-adults (2 months to sexual maturity): Fresh greens/veg 1-2 times daily - Live prey 1-2 times per day
Dusted: All Live Prey five days per week with phosphorus free calcium – One day per week with calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

For adults (generally 1+ year): Fresh greens/veg 1- 2 times daily - Live prey every 2-3 days.
Dusted: Live Prey every other feeding with phosphorus free calcium - Twice per month with calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

As there are different circumstances that may arise, this schedule is recommended only as a general guide and may be altered to accommodate individual situations. Using a tracking method of when you dust prevents unnecessary use of product and more importantly, potential harm to your dragon! With proper and effective UVB lighting, supplementation with vitamin D3 is not imperative but should be provided in small amounts. Excessive levels of oral vitamin D3 can potentially lead to the excessive absorption and utilization of calcium and/or toxicity as can the excessive use of supplements containing high levels of vitamin A. Over use of any supplement can have the potential to cause serious health problems, stick to an appropriate supplementation schedule.
Read More: http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/index.php?threads/basic-bd-care-sheet-a-place-to-start.5177/

A few good links to help get you started ...

Basic BD Care Sheet - A Place To Start

Bearded Dragon --- Exclusive Care Info Library

Beautiful Dragons Nutrition Chart

Is Bearded Dragon Co-habitation a good plan?

How to sex a Bearded Dragon
How To Sex A Bearded Dragon

It may be a good plan to post pics of your entire setup, showing the lighting orientation in relation to the rest of your setup along with as much accurate info about your setup as you can, such as enclosure size, substrate, type & brand of UVB, temps both basking spot & cool side, Day\night schedule, type of thermometer used to measure the temps & where exactly are they measured from, etc, etc. This would give members a "Feel" for your situation & enable them to offer more relevent & helpful advice.

BTW- That BD does not look much older than 5-6 weeks (if that???), let alone 4 months ... But pictures can be deceiving ... How long is it from nose to tip of tail?

 

[Jon Macintosh]

Gilliesexotics,
Thank you for the welcome!

I'll keep following as I have been then and keep him eating as much as he prefers.
When I came home today he had finally dug into his greens!!!!! I was beyond ecstatic.

And I have not done so on a regular basis (bathing).
Last night was the first time he was comfortable enough to come up to us and crawl into our hands and we were surprised to see that he had begun shedding his skin! I put Merlin in a lukewarm "bath" that was very shallow and he didn't seem to mind, though how long would you recommend he "bathe"?

And yes, it is a red heat lamp, is this recommended?

(My tank set up I gathered from information online and a new friend that has had her bearded dragon for right over a year now.)

Germ,
I appreciate all of that information! I've been reading up on quite a bit of that already, but it's great to know that I've been researching in the proper areas. I've also fed him two mealworms and his stools have been clear, but I've read mixed reviews on mealworms being bad/good for bearded dragons so I haven't given any more. Any thoughts?

At the moment I am at work, but when I arrive home for the day I will post a picture of my entire set up for you.
I can give you a few base details now, but will go more in depth when I post the photos tonight.

Basic Setup - Heat lamp/basking spot is on the far left side of the tank. In the middle I have a small piece of mopani wood that Merlin likes to crawl on whenever he is hunting. On the far right I have a water dish (I do not fill it up all the way so drowning isn't a concern.) I had a smaller water dish that Merlin wouldn't go near, unsure why. This one he/she does crawl on, though I haven't seen drinking from it. Greens are placed on right side of the tank on a folded paper towel until I manage to acquire a small feeding bowl.


Tank - 55 Gallon Aquarium - 4 feet Long, 22 inches high, 12 inches deep. Wire mesh screen for the top.
Heat - 150 Watt Red Heat Lamp - Flush Dome Enclosure
Lighting - Zoo Med Reptisun™ "Tube Style" Bulb
Substrate - For now I've been using paper towels. I have purchased slate and reptile carpeting but have been waiting until Merlin is more comfortable in his surroundings.
Temperatures - The basking side of the tank stays around 100°-105° when the heat lamp is on. Whenever I come home the temperature is always around 105°. The other side which has water and greens has been staying around 78°-84°.
Thermometers - I have two All Things Living™ analog thermometers. I don't care for them but have been asking around as to what types/brands I should have and are preferable so I haven't attached them to the siding of the aquarium yet < any thoughts? Right now I have one balancing on his basking spot between two "branches" (it's lower than the high point he usually basks at). The other is right alongside his water bowl (which is on the far side of the aquarium away from the heat lamp). I've heard that the "heat" thermometer needs to be six inches above his typical basking spot. Is this correct?
Schedule - Both lamps are turned on at 6am (they are on a timer). The UVB is turned off at 6pm and I've been turning the heat lamp off at 8pm. The temperatures in my house don't fall below 70°.


Looking at care guides online, I'd have to agree that we don't believe Merlin to be 4 months of age.
I will measure tonight and get an accurate reading (I was hoping to measure last night, but he/she was getting a little antsy from being handled for the first time) but I from eyeballing it I would say around 4.5-5inches. Again, I'll get an accurate measurement tonight.

Thank you again for all of your help and we're excited to be a part of the forums!!

Jon Macintosh

 

[Germ]

how long would you recommend he "bathe"? 10-20 minutes in warm water at approximately basking temps 110F. Adding hot water to keep the temps up as it cools.

Misting/Bathing: A twice weekly misting from head to tail with a fine spray mister of room temperature water helps hydration and shedding. Two or three times a month let your dragon have a bath in chest deep warm water, not too hot. Dragons seem to enjoy soaking and it may help to assist in hydration & clearing of minor impactions or constipation. Dragons will often defecate in the bath water, change the water immediately and run a fresh bath, they will only soil their water once on most occasions. Baths are ideal prior to allowing your dragon out of the enclosure as it helps to prevent "accidents". Do not leave your dragon unattended!

Read More: http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/index.php?threads/basic-bd-care-sheet-a-place-to-start.5177/

And yes, it is a red heat lamp, is this recommended? BDs thrive on Bright White Light, A white or clear bulb is recommended for light\heat.

I've read mixed reviews on mealworms being bad/good for bearded dragons so I haven't given any more. Any thoughts? Mealie Basher 'Challenge'

Basic Setup - Heat lamp/basking spot is on the far left side of the tank. In the middle I have a small piece of mopani wood that Merlin likes to crawl on whenever he is hunting. On the far right I have a water dish (I do not fill it up all the way so drowning isn't a concern.) I had a smaller water dish that Merlin wouldn't go near, unsure why. This one he/she does crawl on, though I haven't seen drinking from it. Greens are placed on right side of the tank on a folded paper towel until I manage to acquire a small feeding bowl. BDs will only rarely recognize standing water, so very few BDs will drink from a water dish. The majority of us do not provide one, because it only raises the humidity, these are desert\scrubland creatures, so most of us try to keep the humidity as low as possible (10-30% RH is ideal if your climate will allow it). Not very many puddles or ponds for them to romp in, in their natural habitat. They will get an abundance of Hydration from their greens, regular misting & soaks. A jar lid works really well as a feeding dish when they are young, has low sides enabling the BD to see the food without climbing & gives them easy access to it.

Heat - 150 Watt Red Heat Lamp - Flush Dome Enclosure As previously mentioned, a white or clear light\heat source is recommended. Personally, I use everyday Halogen Flood Bulbs that I purchase at Home Depot (Or any other larger hardware store) for less than half the price of 'pet store' basking bulbs, in all of my enclosures. They provide more heat per watt (So also cheaper to run) along with brighter, whiter light, with superb heat penetration depth into the enclosure.

A 75W Halogen Flood Bulb would likely more suited to your tall enclosure, than the above pictured 50W ... We all have to play with different bulb types, wattages & distances to suit our particular enclosures & ambient room temps.
Lighting - Zoo Med Reptisun™ "Tube Style" Bulb Minimum 10.0 (10%) is needed. Both Heat & UVB bulbs should be situated as well as possible, so as to both cover the 'Basking Spot' with the center (Strongest) portions of the bulbs, simultaneously.
Temperatures - The basking side of the tank stays around 100°-105° when the heat lamp is on. Whenever I come home the temperature is always around 105°. The other side which has water and greens has been staying around 78°-84°. The Basking Spot temp should be in the 110F vicinity for a juvenile, in the 100-105F range for adults. Coolest area in the enclosure should be in the 80-85F vicinity, so you are alright there. See Below ...
Thermometers - I have two All Things Living™ analog thermometers. I don't care for them but have been asking around as to what types/brands I should have and are preferable so I haven't attached them to the siding of the aquarium yet < any thoughts? Right now I have one balancing on his basking spot between two "branches" (it's lower than the high point he usually basks at). The other is right alongside his water bowl (which is on the far side of the aquarium away from the heat lamp). I've heard that the "heat" thermometer needs to be six inches above his typical basking spot. Is this correct? No! The Basking Spot/Side temps should be measured directly at the basking spot, the closest spot that your BD has access to the heat bulb which should be the hottest accessible spot in the enclosure. Digital thermometers with a sensors\probes attached directly to the basking spot are recommended. Similar to this Example of a basic digital thermometer with a sensor:

Example of a Basic Setup: Showing the recommended Basic requirements, proper Temperatures & the points at which they should be measured from, in Red & the optional choices that are actually used in this particular example enclosure, in Black.

Read More: http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/index.php?threads/basic-bd-care-sheet-a-place-to-start.5177/

The analog thermometers that you have described, will not give accurate temps & are not suited to this application, as when mounted to the glass, will give you the temp of the glass which is affected as much by the outside ambient room temps as the inside environment & is not where the temps should be measured from in the first place.
Schedule - Both lamps are turned on at 6am (they are on a timer). The UVB is turned off at 6pm and I've been turning the heat lamp off at 8pm. The temperatures in my house don't fall below 70°. Both lights should be On\Off at the same times. Most of us have found that 14 hours of Daylight to be a little long, doesn't really allow them enough sleep time, 12 On & 12 Off seems to be what works the best for them.

Jon Macintosh

Good Luck, hope some of this helps,

 

[Pat B]

Welcome to BDF!! You have been given some very good information. I doubt if your beardie is 4 months if it came from Petsmart....he is probably more like 6 weeks if that. Whenever I go to Petsmart and look at their beardies they seem to get smaller and smaller. Their 'reptile' specialists are notorious for giving out false information. Anyway....welcome again to BDF and enjoy your stay....

 

[Noella]

Welcome to BDF! Your little eating machine will eat more nom noms.

 

[Jon Macintosh]

I apologize for not responding sooner! My email account was temporarily locked up and I was unable to see that I had replies.

I've contemplated removing his water dish - but I've seen him/her go to it to walk through it twice now (never stays in it though - just a very quick run through).

A jar lid is a fantasic idea and I'll find one ASAP!

As for the heating bulb, I will be going tonight (to Lowes) to pick up the recommended 75 Halogen Flood Bulb and check temperatures to ensure that it's providing enough heat!! - Thank you VERY MUCH for the recommendation as every employee at Petsmart wanted us to get the Red Bulb (which was actually cheaper than their white light).

I will also check around for digital themometers and promptly return the others! - I want to ensure Merlin has the proper temperatures!

I will also post pictures of my current set up below.
My UVB bulb IS a Reptisun 10.0 Tube style - so I should be good there!

The one thing it appears I am missing is this Multivitamin (Herptivite). I will pick up some tonight as well and be certain that I do not mix it with the calcium when dusting!

Thank you very much for all of your replies and the information - it's beyond helpful!

(The spots that can be seen in the sink are markings! Not something in the water!)

Questions:

As long as they are getting a 12 hour period of light/dark, is it recommendable to move that timeframe? As of now it is 6am-6pm and would work A LOT better with us for feeding if it was 8am-8pm. (I've simply read that 6am-6pm is best.. but am unsure as to how accurate this information is.)

Also, I've read that they can be somewhat tempermental when shedding and this morning Merlin's beard was puffed out at us (not dark) and was doing his/her best to hide from us. - Is this normal?

And one last question! (for the time being)
Could somebody advise on sleeping habits?
I realize they should have 12 hours of lights and 12 not, but during the nighttime, how do they typically act? The tank doesn't go below 70° but Merlin doesn't move during the nighttime and will hardly open eyes at noises and the such. (worried parents - ha! - but it's good to be worried vs. not caring!)

Thank you all ever so much again! Looking forward to your replies!


-Jon Macintosh

 

[Germ]

I will answer as much as I have time for right now. As you have it set up now, your BD is not receiving any UVB at all. Both the UVB and the Heat bulb must be set up so they both cover the basking bulb with the center portions of the bulbs (as depicted in the example in my previous post). All UVB bulbs have a limited effective range. A NEW unfiltered (Nothing between the bulb & animal 10.0 uvb bulb. e.g. - No screen) 10.0 UVB bulb has a maximum effective distance of 20" & this distance deteriorates (Shortens) quickly as the bulb ages & is why they must be regularly replaced.

A UVB bulb loses its effectiveness as it ages under use. Most manufacturers recommend replacement every year. BUT being mounted above a fine screen, will block\filter\reflect as much as 50+% of its effective range, so they must be replaced minimum every six months & they emit their strongest effective UVB from the bulk center portions of the tube, very little off of the ends. When mounted above the screen, the basking spot must be within 8"-10" from the bulb for it to be effective at all. In a taller enclosure such as yours it would be more advantageous to mount the UVB bulb under the screen as is described in the following quote ...

Here is the way that I mount and position the UV fixture in Mungi's 40 gallon Breeder enclosure...I do use the cheap fixture from walmart and it is hotglued to the inside back and side wall of the tank approximately 1 inch below the rim of the tank.

The basking bulb is suspended so that it is centered over the basking spot and the UV fixture is mounted so the the center of the bulb which is where the majority of the UV is emmitted is inline with the basking light and so that both lights shine down on the basking spot.
I also use a piece of heavy duty aluminum foil to help intensify and direct the UV light down onto the basking spot.
Hope this helps

Mounting this way, the Basking spot should still be within 10"-12" of the UVB bulb to be effective. Proper UVB placement & distance is 'Deadly' imperative.

The digital thermometers similar to the one depicted in my previous post, can generally be found in the Fish department, a few dollars cheaper than basically the exact same thermometer found in the reptile department.

Your Day\Night schedule can be shifted around to better suit you schedule, provided that it is still 12\12 & is constant & consistent, on\off at the same time of the day, everyday. An electronic timer is invaluable for this, and also will take care of the lighting schedule when you can't be there. Your 8 to 8 plan would work just fine, mine are 9 to 9.

Yes, shedding can cause some BDs to be cranky, temperamental & will sometimes result in reduced appetite, this is normal. Increased misting & warm soaks during this time will help reduce the irritation & help the shed along a little faster, making it easier to release the old skin.

A new BD can go through an acclimation period that can last a week to 10 days or more. Handling should be kept minimal, only to feeding & maintenance during this time, to help the transition be as stress free as possible.

Finding your BD in the same spot & often in the same position in the morning, as it was the night before, is a good thing. Is evidence that it had a good comfortable undisturbed sleep. Also quite normal behavior.

Having your enclosure in front of a window may not be the best of plans, should those blinds be open on a sunny day, the sun's heat magnified through the glass can cause seriously dangerous heat spikes in the enclosure, could turn it into an oven. Also an FYI - Providing Sun that has to pass through glass serves no purpose, UVB cannot pass through solid filters such as glass or plastic.

Hope this helps, got to get my butt off to work now ...

Good Luck

 

[Jon Macintosh]

Thank you SO MUCH for the UVB advice. I will grab a new fixture, return the hood, and mount it inside the tank ASAP tonight.

Through all of my reading I hadn't come across a consistent placement of light recommendations, so I went with what a friend who owns a beardy said (I'll inform her that she should change up her lights as well.)

The digital thermometers similar to the one depicted in my previous post, can generally be found in the Fish department, a few dollars cheaper than basically the exact same thermometer found in the reptile department.
Awesome! I'll check around a few pet stores and see if I can find one suitable!

Your Day\Night schedule can be shifted around to better suit you schedule, provided that it is still 12\12 & is constant & consistent, on\off at the same time of the day, everyday. An electronic timer is invaluable for this, and also will take care of the lighting schedule when you can't be there. Your 8 to 8 plan would work just fine, mine are 9 to 9.
Again, awesome. That will help both me and Merlin out in the long run!

Yes, shedding can cause some BDs to be cranky, temperamental & will sometimes result in reduced appetite, this is normal. Increased misting & warm soaks during this time will help reduce the irritation & help the shed along a little faster, making it easier to release the old skin.
This is good to know and we will take action to help little Merlin out!

Finding your BD in the same spot & often in the same position in the morning, as it was the night before, is a good thing. Is evidence that it had a good comfortable undisturbed sleep. Also quite normal behavior.
Also good to know! Worried as we were, it's great to see that he/she has found a spot to get a full night's rest in!

Having your enclosure in front of a window may not be the best of plans, should those blinds be open on a sunny day, the sun's heat magnified through the glass can cause seriously dangerous heat spikes in the enclosure, could turn it into an oven. Also an FYI - Providing Sun that has to pass through glass serves no purpose, UVB cannot pass through solid filters such as glass or plastic.
I thought about this, but I do have new wooden blinds on order with covers for the tracks (the goal is very little to no light coming through - for my sake).
Also this window is below an "awning" of sorts and not in direct path of the sun (faces north), and in the near 9 months I've lived there I may have had them open two or three times. I'm not terribly fond of the sun myself - hah!

Also - I took your recommendation and picked up a 75W Halogen Flood bulb, but after 3 hours the temperature never rose above 92° (this is using my same analog thermometer, as I haven't made it to the pet store yet). For the time being I put the "heat lamp" back in and Merlin became a lot more active and the temperature rose back to the normal degree it's been around.
That being said, the Halogen Flood offered at my local Lowe's above 75W was 90W. Would that be recommended?

Your post helped extremely, Germ, and I look forward to hearing from you, or anybody with advice, yet again!

Thank you,

Jon Macintosh

 

[Jon Macintosh]

I was also thinking on my light - the dome that I have is somewhat tall compared to the bulb (meaning it's rather recessed).
Would a shorter one be recommended to help with heating?

 

[Murtaghs_family]

Im glad merlin is in your family now! Its heart warming to see someone ready to learn as much as they can to help out their new baby!

 

[Jon Macintosh]

As am I! We couldn't be happier to have him!
It suprised me how much I still had to learn, but I am more than up for the challenge!

 

[Murtaghs_family]

Murtagh says hi to merlin

 

[Jon Macintosh]

One week in the family and he's already made friends
Hello Murtagh!!!

 

[Germ]

Also - I took your recommendation and picked up a 75W Halogen Flood bulb, but after 3 hours the temperature never rose above 92° (this is using my same analog thermometer, as I haven't made it to the pet store yet). For the time being I put the "heat lamp" back in and Merlin became a lot more active and the temperature rose back to the normal degree it's been around.
That being said, the Halogen Flood offered at my local Lowe's above 75W was 90W. Would that be recommended?

We all have to play with types, wattages & distances to suit our particular enclosures & ambient room temps. We often have to raise & lower our basking spots &\or heat bulbs to get the temps "right".

I use a 90W Halogen in my 24" tall enclosure during the winter, 75W in the summer, in a fixture that keeps the bulb 'just off' an expanded metal screen (Larger holes) & this works for me & my ambient room temps, which may be warmer than yours, to bring my temps to what are needed. Thus my suggestion of the 75W for yours. There are several variables that come into play, density of the screen, ambient room temps, distance, etc. You must find the one that works for your situation. If you are using a deep fixture, this would keep the bulb further from the screen affecting the penetration into the enclosure. A shallower fixture that would place the bulb closer to the screen (And animal) may help.

Good Luck.

 

[Jon Macintosh]

I'm having terrible luck with bulbs. I tried a 90 watt and it actually produced LESS heat than the 75W. A 120w barely got to 95. My Lowe's doesn't carry any halogen about 120w Par 38 Halogen floods.

They do carry 125 w brooder heat lamps. Are these recommended/not for any reason?

 

[Germ]

Fairly simple, the distance between your basking bulb & basking spot is too great. Raise your basking spot to where your temps come into the desired range, you have a tall enclosure, taller than the 40 Gal Breeder that most members use to house BDs. Unsure about the phenomenon of lower wattage providing more heat, makes me wonder about the accuracy of your thermometers, where & when you are measuring your temps.

 

[Jon Macintosh]

All is well now!
The craziness with the wattage was actually a simple solution... Somebody had returned lower wattage bulbs in the higher wattage package...

We exchanged our dome for a shorter one - found Phillips true 90watt bulbs - and the new digital thermometer we purchased shows a solid 112.5 on his basking spot!!
Wonderful!

Also. Now that the UVB bulb is inside the tank, Merlin has been incredibly active!!!! Though he has taken to playing with his reflection a lot. We hope he doesn't hurt himself!

 

[Pat B]

Love your beardie....he is beautiful. Good to hear you are on the right track in providing everything right for your little creature. He will grow like crazy and you will thoroughly enjoy him.