Flip Flop Brumation...normal or not?

[packfan74]

QUESTION: can a 9 month old brumate for a day or two then stop for a day, then start again, and so on for weeks?

My guy Henry is about 9-9.5 months old now. He's 16 inches, good weight. He has horrible eating habbits (don't get me started!). He lives alone in a 36x18 tank. Temps are good. 74F cool side / 95-100F hot. He has a 10.0 Powersun UVB/A spot lamp. He gets baths almost daily. He seems happy & healthy.......however:

Some days he eats, most days he does not. Some days he drinks, most days he does not. Some days he poops, most days he does not (he's gone 10 days w/o pooping before!) Some days he suns, most days he does not. Some days he sits in his brumation box with his head sticking out the door taking cat naps all day, some times he goes in and doesn't come out for 2-3 days...not even a peek. Once a week or so, he'll act normally. He'll eat a hugh meal (no veg), climb around, sun, come out and play and generally act like his old self. But most of the week, we doesn't eat, drink, poop or sun and only wants to sleep.

I'm calling this "Flip Flop Brumation". Is that possible?

 

[li]

It is not unusual for a 9month old to do a partial brumation...just kind of slow down. But I see a few things in your description that makes me think it could be husbandry. First...your temps. They are a bit low. More towards 105* is the best temp for a dragon 9 months old. So I would pop up the temps a bit. Second, your uvb...what kind is it. Unless it is a Reptisun 10.0% he could be not getting enough uvb. Also...are you dusting with calcium and a multi vitamin? Do you soak him regularly?

 

[pscaulkins]

Sounds normal to me. Heck, I have 6 y/o's that do that all winter long. Every dragon is different so maybe you need to up the temps a bit but having a Powersun MVB should keep that size tank warmer. When I used a Powersun, I had to hot of temps.

 

[packfan74]

temps are hard to maintain. Cool side floats up & down between 69-80 depending on time of day. Hot side goes from 69-103, again, depending on time of day. Average temps on cool side during the day is 75F. Avg. temps on hot side during the day is 100F. I have 2 digital probes. I have a single lamp which was highly recommended by breeders at a reptile expo I attended as the only UBV/A & heat source needed. Its a PowerSun 10.0 - cost $60.00 bucks (US).

Henry's diet is made up almost entirely of superworms; it s a food source I wish I hadn't introduced so early cuz he now stuck on them! For 8 months I tried every single green veg you can think of - he bearly eat any of it. I gave up about 8 weeks ago and now I'm feeding jar baby food every other day via a droper. He gets a mix of pea, squash, apples, carrots all at once. I also mix in some powered protine my vet gave me. I also sprinkle in Reptivite w/D3 and Bene-Bac. I heat it up to room temp and drop it on his nose. He licks up about 4-5ml per feeding. A total of 6-7ml everyother day. He is totally off crix and I've been waiting my money trying to get him interested. He likes wax worms but he only gets those once a month as a treat. I'm not doing the roach thing no matter what - don't ask. Henry has gained weight on this diet and seems to be maintaining well. He's shedding and looks in good condition with bright eyes and friendly attitude. His pooping is slow - true, but I'm past stressing about it every hour of every day - it's giving me heart problems! I assume slow is acceptable due to diet and activity level. When he does go, ITS A GOOD ONE!

He gets a soak in warm water in the tub or closed container just about every day for 15-20 minutes. If I miss a day, it usually is only 1 in a 7 day week.

I'm going with the brumation idea but just really wanted a confirmation from others that this is possible for a 9 month old to go in and out every few days.

 

[dragonskeeper]

Sounds like you may nead a secoundary uvb light. The problem with a bulb type uvb is that it consintrates the uvb rays to one side of the tank. which means if he where to stay on the other side of the tank away from the light, he might not be geiting enough uvb. this is why a tube type uvb light is recomended. this way the uvb rays are through out the viv equily. you can get a cheap fixture at wal mart or any local home improvement store. than get a reptisun 10.0 tube type bulb. try a higher wattage of bulb for hot side. I see the temps were already coverd in this post so im not going to step on anyones toes. thanks for your time hope everything works out

 

[packfan74]

I've run up and down the uv road and have switched my lighting system twice based on advice from people here and breeders at the expo. I invested alot of money and think perhaps Im overthinking some things which includes lighting. The Powersun is 160wt - i haven't seen one any stronger. I've tried a Reptiglow 75wt (which was good during the summer when outside temps here regularly get to 100F) and a Reptisun 150wt. None of these lights kept my tank above 100F (except for 3 months in the summer). The tank has a metal screen top and I have to keep 98% of it covered with thick bath towles in order to maintain high temps. For now, Im sticking w/the 160wt Powersun w/uv. I've moved the tank back to its original room in the house (which is in the room next to the last location). It has the same sun exposure but is a slightly smaller room. This move has helped raise the temps a few degrees, but not by much.

Its cold here, true - about 32F in the day / low 20s night; if we get wind, it can be close to zero w/the chill factor. February & March are usually colder with lots of wind! My whole house temps avg. about 73F day & nite, so Im not sure why with a 160wt spot lamp my viv doesn't get above 100F regularly....? I can add back my old uv light TUBE but then I'd assume the cool side will also heat up too.........will see.

 

[staylor]

Something does not add up. I keep my house at 73* and I only need a 75 watt light to keep my dragons warm. Oscars basking site is 98 (he likes lower temps) and Piggy is at 105*. Not sure why your temps are so off.

 

[staylor]

I was thinking about this. Are the temp readings that low at the basking site or just on the hot side?

 

[li]

I realize that you have been told different things, but honestly the powersun isn't giving off enough of either of the things you want. It doesn't make the tank hot enough because of the wide spread of light and it definately doesn't give off enough uvb. When I first started out I also went crazy with lighting. Spent a fortune with all different kinds that all the "experts" seemed to want to sell me. Finally realized that these "experts" wanted to make money. Honestly...your best bet for heat and uvb is this. For heat, use a regular household bulb in a dome holder. The watt will depend on the size of your tank. For the uvb, get a Reptisun 10.0. This is a tube style. As of late is it considered one of the best out there. Obviously you have to do what YOU think is best, I am just giving you the advice of what many us and it works well.

The temp fluctuation and the lack of uvb definately can effect the way your beardie is digesting his food. Although all beardies bodies are different, just like ours, most beardies under the age of one do have a BM daily or at the minimum every other day.

As for not feeding greens, or at least trying them constantly is that when he is an adult, the protein intake has to drop to about 20% and greens 80% of his diet. Completley oposite of now. Feeding baby food food for the next couple of years of his lefe just isn't going to be the best diet. Keep trying greens daily...eventually he will eat them.

 

[packfan74]

I know, right.

Can't figure it out either.......unless my digital probes are off?? I bought two middle of the road ones (cost wise). One end is stuck to the inside of the tank wall at each end and the digital readout parts are stuck to the front of the tank on the outside. The probe thats inside next to the hot spot (the rocks) is at the same level as the top rock and only about 4-5 inches away. Most of the day it reads 97-98. Middle of the day its 100; sometimes 103. By dark (5:30 PM), its down to 95-96........again, we're talking about a 160wt bulb here!!! No windows are open, no drafts, no doors, to ceiling fan, etc.....tank is on the 2nd floor of my house in my sons bedroom; and he sleeps in just his skivvies and a thin blanket at nite cuz he complains he too HOT!!

It is what it is and I'm just trying to make the best of it without killing my dragon. Don't know what else I can be doing unless I stick the dang tank in the oven - lol. Laugh now - but know that the last two night in a row, I've been so worried that I've taken Henry out of his tank and slept with him next to me on a covered heating pad!.......he looks so cute all curled up and warm.

 

[li]

Do you have that bulb in a dome holder? I really do think if you just switch that out for a regular household bulb you will see a difference.

Also, about the probes...if you stick them to the wall of the tank, they are going to read the glass, not the ambient temp. What I used to do with the cool side was put the wire down the corner of the tank and tape it about 1" above the probe. this way the probe just kind of hung there, not against the glass. This way you are getting air temp, not glass temp. The basking side...I actually tied the wire around where the basking spot was. Can you post a pic of your tank please.

 

[ladyknite]

Think about air flow in comparison to room size. It's warmer standing near the heat vent, than 5 feet away right? A smaller room will heat up faster, and maintain heat longer because it has less open air space for heat to dissipate.

it's a possibility your therms are off.......if they're older and need batteries. However, i don't really think this is brumation.

Some days he sits in his brumation box with his head sticking out the door taking cat naps all day, some times he goes in and doesn't come out for 2-3 days...not even a peek.

it's like giving a kid candy. The barometric pressure all over the country is reaking havoc, temps are cool, and he has a tight little sleepy hole. Of course he's gonna use it.

Take it away, add a small wattage (40) house bulb to what you already have, and see if it doesn't improve his activity somewhat and in turn, his appetite. Hard to work up one of those if you sleep all day.
At some point in time, there was an article on the PowerSun. Maybe beardielover17 has it.

For nite time heat, you can always install a CHE. it'll do the job.

 

[beardielover17]

I just saw this post. I have links to articles on just about every MVB out there. I will have to PM them to you because they are on other forums but I will be happy to share.

 

[Terra Colson Nicholson]

How are you doing now? any better?