Big Sleep check list

[Red Ink AUS]

Hi guys,

That time of the year again where you guys over the pond will be without your companions for a few months.
So just as a reminder for those who have not gone through it before here's a few things to consider.

At the first sign of them slowing down, check all husbandry aspects.
lights
food
temps
This will help rule out if it is brumation.

If it's all spot on then the next step for suspect dragons is a fecal check do not let them brumate if they have parasites, clear that up first

So your all good and they are showing signs of brumation.

Next

Check the CHEs for the CHE users (accurate thermometers essential)

Start mimicking the ambient photo period.

If they are no longer basking you can start putting the basking light on intervals say for just 5 hours a day but leave the UVB lamps to copy the natural photoperiod.

Do not feed live prey anymore just vegs.

At this time I like to provide a hide for mine to sleep in if they choose to makes them feel more secure, not necessary though.

If they have gone into full sleep you can turn off the basking lamp and UV all together or just turn it on for a few hours every three days or so if your worried. I turn mine all off.

Some people like to wake them up once a week for a bath, this is not a problem but if you do turn all lights back on. I don't practise this by the way. Once mine's asleep I dont disturb them unless they wake up on their own accord.

That's all there is too it now sigh and longingly look at the dark enclosure waiting for them to wake up, but if your like me this is when i put my feet up and take a break from the reptiles with a beer in hand and my butt on the couch with one hand on the remote lol.

 

[Pogie]

Thanx Fancis, it surely will help when we get to it someday. Really wish I could skip it. Brumation terrifies me.

That's all there is too it now sigh and longingly look at the dark enclosure waiting for them to wake up, but if your like me this is when i put my feet up and take a break from the reptiles with a beer in hand and my butt on the couch with one hand on the remote lol.

Sounds good LOL, just swop the beer for a Smirnoff Storm and were good to go

 

[SoleSky]

I would be scared too. Does their breathing slow down at all like other animals who hibernate? I was told to feed some waxworms before the dead of winter because it fattens them up. Is this true too?

 

[Leigh]

How long does the "big sleep" last? Sounds like I picked the wrong time of year to want to get a beardie. I think I will take the next month or so and work on building my viv and get my beardie in the spring. In the meantime, I will just soak up all the knowledge I can on this site!

 

[Pogie]

The length varies from dragon to dragon. Some only semi brumate and others go down for weeks, some months. But they dont usually brumate during the 1st 18 months or so. Only when adults (Of course there probably are exceptions) But I recon if you wanted to get a baby youd be safe.
Pogie is now 15 months old and hasnt brumated yet.

I could be wrong but this is what I can remeber from all the brumation posts Ive read so far

 

[staylor]

Oscar is 6 and has never brumated. Captive dragons don't have to brumate. Some choose to do it on their own and others the keepers put into brumation. Please correct me if I am wrong but brumation in a captive dragon is only needed if you want to breed.

 

[crypticdragons]

Oscar is 6 and has never brumated. Captive dragons don't have to brumate. Some choose to do it on their own and others the keepers put into brumation. Please correct me if I am wrong but brumation in a captive dragon is only needed if you want to breed.

Its not even needed for breeding. it helps (supposedly) for breeding, to increase fertility and clutch count. Its mainly important for males as it increases their want to breed. Most captive dragons will brumate simply because their bodies react to the changes in barometric pressure, humidity, external light, and temps. Some of these changes we may not even notice but their systems are more accute to it and will, more often than not, slow down in reaction to this as their natural internal clocks tell them to. When your dragon decides to brumate it actually causes more stress on the animal to try and fight it than to just let them go down. Though I completely agree with Francis that you need to make sure everything that you control is setup correctly prior to allowing them to go down as if it is not many problems can occur. If a dragon is allowed to brumate with an overload of any parasite the parasites will continue to grow and get to a dangerous level.

 

[staylor]

So if I am not seeing any changes in them, eating normal, normal activity, etc. I should just keep thing how they are.

Piggy has had a slow down on everything, has just finished 3 round of deworming (Oscar had them and since they are fed off the same foods she was treated before she could get the stinky poop) do you think it would be a good idea to let her sleep? I am not sure about her age but the best guess I have been able to make is she is somewhere around 13-14 months but could be older.

 

[crypticdragons]

So if I am not seeing any changes in them, eating normal, normal activity, etc. I should just keep thing how they are.

Piggy has had a slow down on everything, has just finished 3 round of deworming (Oscar had them and since they are fed off the same foods she was treated before she could get the stinky poop) do you think it would be a good idea to let her sleep? I am not sure about her age but the best guess I have been able to make is she is somewhere around 13-14 months but could be older.

Take your ques from your dragon. If she is slowing down and attempting to brumate than allow it as long as her fecal is clear.

 

[DaniNPickle]

Pickles has a appointment with the doctor for a chek up next week. Should I ask him if he thinks Pickles is ready for this?

 

[beardielover17]

In my opinion only the dragon knows if they are ready to brumate or not. You can definitely ask if Pickles has a clean fecal and if he is in good health

 

[Craiger]

Good info, Francis!

Frodo's 4 years old and Sam is 3 and neither have ever gone into full brumation. However, if fecals are clean this year, I may give it a try by doing some of the things pointed out. Might be nice to have a bit of a break...though I know I'll miss them!

 

[staylor]

I will take her poop to be checked and if all clear I will slowly shut her down. She has spent all day today in hiding and her temps are good. Don't know for sure since I have never done this but I am going to give it a try and see if it makes her happier.

 

[Red Ink AUS]

As Bri and Candice mentioned the dragon knows and we should take our cues from them.

One thing though i have always wondered about is "semi-brumation"? Having never gone through this myself I have some suspect thoughts on this, but this are just my thoughts from observations of the descriptions of people about semi-brumation and that doesn't mean they are necessarily true.

As mentioned mine have never gone through semi-brumation. Having said this I have always practiced full "shut down" of the set up. I am in OZ so I don't know if that has any effect on brumation as I am in their natural environment in terms of ambient temps, barometric pressure, photo periods, etc..etc..
From personal observations mine have shut down on their first year (full shut down).
Now here are the things that I have noticed.

Specimens in "semi-brumation".

1. The specimen starts to slow down, but is labelled only in semi brumation.

2. Temps are kept the same, regardsless of natural ambient temps.

3. Photo-period un-altered.

4. Basking light provided at the same intervals.

5. Feeding of live prey continued as specimen is only in "semi-brumation" and shows signb of activity.

6. Specimen given weekly hydration.

Now my thoughts.

Is it actually "semi-brumation" or is it disrupted brumation? As I said in all the cases I have seen on semi brumation the husbandry practice during this time seems to follow the same pattern. Is it that the specimen can not actually go into brumation as no husbandry changes have been made to accomodate brumation as it has been labelled as semi brumation early on. In the cases I have observed (an this is over forums only) the dragons will show signs of brumation for a few weeks therefore the keeper "thinks" it's brumation, rightly so as well. Then the keeper does not make any changes to husbandry to accomodate brumation, the specimen wakes up and shows signs of activity and is labelled in semi-brumation only. No other changes to husbandry made and it's business as usual. The way I see it (my opinion only), the keeper has made the decision to keep the husbandry aspects the same based on observations they have made (everybody does that, I know I do). Where my brain rattles around a bit is the fact that naturally nobody can stop winter, I can't keep the planet in the smae orbit therefore seasonal changes will occur. In the 4x2x2 micro climate I can alter this to some degree and prevent the seasons from changing. So for the first time observations of brumation is there actually a thing as semi-brumation?

What do you guys think of this?

 

[beardielover17]

It's funny you mention this Francis because I was thinking the same thing about Magellan today. He only fully brumated once in his 4 years of life. The first year I had no idea how to go about brumation and the following years he only semi-brumated. I usually put a lower wattage bulb on and change the lighting schedule a bit but he still wakes up every now and then. I never wake him to feed him or soak him. My thoughts on this is that I think how his enclosure is set up has a lot to do with it. I have tile as a substrate and I think his lack of borrowable substrate makes a difference too. His enclosure is far from natural and I think that kind of hinders his natural instincts on how to brumate. I've changed my husbandry while he attempted to brumate but I think it all comes down to his enclosure set up for him at least.

 

[zebraflavencs]

Let's see...
Orion and Yardley have been down for almost 3 months now...
Gem went down officially, last week.. I did have to make some adjustments, however, to the interior of his enclosure, to ensure he went fully down. I added a hide. Annebelle, is still up and around, most days. She is in the room with the most activity, light in the room is on, almost 24/7. However.. she isn't getting anything but veggies. She kept glass dancing until I removed the food container from her sight... ( we normally kept it on the desk across from her.) Now, she will crawl into a corner... and sorta... plop. I do cover her front, to offer her darkness, but she will snooze for a day or so... then start banging on the glass with her tail... On go the lights,,, for around 5-8 hours... salad offered...

So given those circumstances.. Yes, Francis.. I believe you are onto something here...

The three that have darkness, cooler temps are "down". The one that is exposed to light, activity, and warmer temps, is up.

 

[wtbullins]

I'm glad I am reading all of this because my beardie in the last week has started to seem like he is going down...and I was starting to worry that he was getting sick. I've kept my temps the same as they were, however I was thinking about shortening the length of the "day" down. He pretty much has stayed in the same place for two days now, located in a tight spot between the glass and the base of the climbing structure in there. I have had my UVB light now for 6 months...they say that they last for a year but I've read that the UVB starts diminishing after 6 months...I was going to order a new one..should I? This is the first time he has gone through this (I've only had him for 6 months) so I'm new to this stage. I know that it can be out of the basking light but the basking light also helps that part of the cage stay at a constant temperature, so I don't want to turn it off. And I do want him to have enough UVB light at all times during the day. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Debbe]

I don't like this either. The vet says he is healthy though.. Makes me nervous..

 

[staylor]

I have been stepping down Piggy's lighting schedule, cut out live feeders, and lowered her temps slightly. She has not come out of her hide for the past week other then when I made her for a bath, but kind of wakes up from time to time. Today she came out of her hide and has her head up and eye's bright and wide open but still laying on the floor. Is this normal for ones that have not gone down completely yet?

 

[Pogie]

It sounds like Pogie. If I didnt take her off the floor in the cool side shed stay there forever I think. But I wouldnt survive a week LOL so I take her out every 2nd day.
Shes shedding now. But still refuses live feeders and eats some salad 2x week if Im lucky.

But Im not sure if its semi brumation / the liver thing still / after effects of the meds or the shed.........