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Advice needed to prevent future impaction.

Augie

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
534
Location
San Antonio TX
Hello fellow bearders! I need some advice, but first, story time:

I've had a bit of a scare recently with my dragon, and literally just resolved it moments ago. She normally poops every week or two, but this week I realized today marked week 3. I had also noticed that her appetite was almost non-existent over the last 4-5 days and she had been pretty inactive, wanting to stay on the cool side and rarely basking.

I gave her a bath last week and the week before, but she has never pooped in the bathtub anyway so I wasn't alarmed. Today I soaked her for almost 25 minutes, and still nothing. I decided to rub her belly and was surprised at how quickly she became... productive. :D I hadn't tried it sooner because, again, I have done it in the past and she has never pooped from baths and belly rubbing in the 16 months I have had her.

The poop was, shall I say, intimidating in size. I would say it was about 40% of her size. I'm not kidding or trying to be funny. It was intense watching her because I could tell she struggled to get it out and immediately looked relived and energetic after finishing. She's now in her cage acting pretty normal. As I was cleaning the tub, I noticed three pieces wouldn't go down the drain: two poops and the urate. I had to flush them; they were rock hard to the touch.

Now on to advice: is there anything you have read that makes you think something is missing from her husbandry? Temps on her basking driftwood are 105 at the hottest point, and 95 on the other areas she frequents. Children's washed sifted playsand as substrate. She gets gut-loaded crickets, roaches, and a salad that consists of collard or mustard greens almost exclusively. Fruits, superworms, and waxworms as RARE (as in only 3-4 times a month) treats. Lastly, I have recently introduced beardie pellets into her diet, which is what gives me the greatest pause.

I say this because that is the only recent change to her diet. Is it possible I am not moistening them enough? I wet them to the point where they are soft but not soggy, and still a little firm in the center. The only other thing I can think of is when I put them in her salad maybe she is eating them later in the day when they are dryer. Or maybe that's not the cause and its something completely different. If you've gotten this far it means you really care and are interested in the health of all dragons, even ones you more than likely will never meet, so I want to hear from you. Your thoughts?
 

gilliesexotics

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
833
Location
Indiana
Hi, one main thing to prevent impaction is hydration. Typically a well hydrated animal wont become impacted unless the source either to large to pass or absorbs moisture. I would not worry about the new pellets or anything in your care as a culprit. Have you recently had cold weather? It sounds like she may be wanting to sleep/bru. During this time they will want to go to the cool side, low or no appetite and will go for a long time without a stool.
 

Augie

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
534
Location
San Antonio TX
That's good to hear about the pellets, as she really likes them.

I'm also glad you mentioned something about the cold. The weather down here has been biblical this winter (well at least through a Texan's eyes ;)). I will keep an eye out, but honestly, after that poop she dropped, she's been incredibly active today. Just like her old self.

I honestly believe it was from hydration issues. I did skip a few baths with her at the end of 2013. Your help is always appreciated, G.

Edit: Let me also add that since writing this, she has eaten 1 adult male dubia, some carrot chips, and quite a few crickets. That's more than she's eaten in almost a week.
 

Augie

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
534
Location
San Antonio TX
Well now I need to give your brumation comment more consideration. She's acting weird again. Mostly stays on the cool side, and every 3 days has a jump in appetite. After last weekend she didn't eat again until Thursday, and then ate two adult male dubia, some greens, and 3 beardie pellets. She has eaten a few pellets the last few days, but I bet tomorrow or Monday will have a crazy appetite again. She hasn't really basked much today until just a few minutes ago, right before lights out.

How can I confirm whether she is wanting to brumate or not? She's definitely acting weird.
 

gilliesexotics

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
833
Location
Indiana
Hi, Give her a cave or something to crawl into on the cool side of the tank. If she does crawl into it or sleeps in the corner of the cool side. Personally, i would just turn the lights off and let her do what she is geared to do. Her appetite being off doesnt necessarily warrant bru as she may be toning her diet naturally because of age/maturity.
 

Augie

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
534
Location
San Antonio TX
Thank you. I did leave the lights off for two hours this morning (didn't turn them on at all) but when I checked on her she was laying on her basking driftwood with her eyes open. I will move her hide to the cool side to see what she does. Should I bathe her first to try to get her to poop?

Thanks again.
 

Augie

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
534
Location
San Antonio TX
Hi, Give her a cave or something to crawl into on the cool side of the tank. If she does crawl into it or sleeps in the corner of the cool side. Personally, i would just turn the lights off and let her do what she is geared to do. Her appetite being off doesnt necessarily warrant bru as she may be toning her diet naturally because of age/maturity.

Gillie, you're a genius. Although she's been acting flakey the last two weeks with odd behavior and varying appetites, she finally crawled into her hide this morning. I just shut the lights off, but I have a big concern.

The last time she pooped was when I mentioned it in this post above. I bathed her two days ago, with no poop. I have researched a little on brumation, and have read that it's best to ensure they have a bowel movement before going into a long-term brumation. What are your thoughts (and anyone one else can offer me advice too)?
 

gilliesexotics

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
833
Location
Indiana
To be completely honest, i do not put much effort into knowing if they had a stool before brumation or not. However, it does make complete sense that it is best for them to defecate before sleeping. Offer hydration to her once a week. If she wakes when you touch her. Id soak her in warm water for 10-15 minutes. If she stays asleep, you can take a dropper or syringe and drop water on her lips to spur some drinking. Place a dry rag under her head while doing this to soak up the water.

When your weather breaks, turn back on the lights/heat and she will eventually come out on her own.
 

Augie

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
534
Location
San Antonio TX
Thank you. I gave her a bath last Thursday or Friday, so I will give her another this Saturday. I just wanted to make sure having that stuff still in her belly won't kill her.
 

river-7

Juvenile Dragon
3 Year Member
Messages
665
Location
Mississauga-ontario canada
Hi; Augie; My thoughts are as you said=SAND-if she is eating some by accident she will be hard as rocks-consider that Augie as not all dragons brumate . How many times did I think 'Lil' Beauty was in brumation and she was not.Just went to her cool side acted nuts for a few weeks and slept 2-3-days, in a row and not eating and then back to normal.As long as your temps are correct keep your eye on her and note what all that happens. Beauty would just tear around the tank some days and sleep for 2-3-days after but never did brumate.Hope some of this helps you but consider the sand. When they are eating they must get some sand in their mouths and that would account for a hard[like rock stool] lol-good luck Augie; river-aka-Bella
 

Augie

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
534
Location
San Antonio TX
Hello Miss River it's good to have you back. You've been a huge savior to our favorite reptile and I hope you're back for good. :)

I got a little cabin fever for my baby and decided to give her a bath last night to try to poop. She took in a lot of water but of course she didn't go. :( What made matters worse is she started tasting the sand and going crazy after I dried her off and put her back in the cage. I was hoping she snapped out of a quick brumation so I fed her and she ate some collard greens, wasn't satisfied, so I gave her an adult male dubia. She practically snatched it from the tongs and then proceeded to dig like crazy for hours.

Finally she wore herself out. It looked like she was trying to dig her way into the hide, but didn't go in (even with me nudging her on). She eventually just laid limp on the cool side and was there all night and all day today (I left the lights off). I bought a 5x4 sheet of black fabric and draped it over the cage so she can sleep outside her hide, which she did all day today. Any other advice, other than bathing once a week and letting her do her thing? I may bathe her again on Saturday to try to get her to poop again because its been awhile!
 

river-7

Juvenile Dragon
3 Year Member
Messages
665
Location
Mississauga-ontario canada
Hi; Augie; Something tells me she's eating more sand then you may know of. but if she is in brum; just let her be and if all fails I would advice a good vet to check her for parisites ect; Here's hoping she will get well soon and be back to her normal self. Augie; Is it possible she is about to lay eggs and maybe that accounts for some of her weird little splurts.Try putting a lay box in for her and see if she digs as not all dragons go into brum; as you know. Try the lay box. Good Luck and hope we all can figure her out. River-and i'm just setting up for a baby leather back female and you're the first to know ;Augie the digging may be eggs-have you noticed her tummy a little larger then normal?? bella
 

Augie

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
534
Location
San Antonio TX
Thanks River, I will keep an eye on it. She has always had a gut, since I got her. She also has always dug, so it's hard for me to say. :) And congrats on the new baby!!!
 

river-7

Juvenile Dragon
3 Year Member
Messages
665
Location
Mississauga-ontario canada
Thanks I am very excited lol;I have not chose her yet but I will tomorrow morning and hoping I can find a very light orange. Did you give your girl a lay box she might surprise you- not all lay eggs but it's worth a try to see if we can figure her out.And she just might be in brumation. Hard with these little girls they like to keep you in suspense, just to keep us on our toe's. But I am also thinking she's eating more sand then you maybe see.I am repeating myself but it makes sense that if her stools are rock hard and she's not going as before it might just be sand. I guess is the best key just try 1-thing at a time and if none of can figure her out -I would suggest a vet, to check her out.Sometimes I think they love to make us worry.Why don't you give her a different substrate like news paper or better yet paper towel, for a week or so and see if there is any change.I know 'Lil' Beauty would only go every couple of days and sometimes hard as rock and sometimes-oh boy you don't want to know but I did lol.And maybe she just wants to dig. Here's hoping we can all help in some way.. River-7-bella
 

Augie

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
534
Location
San Antonio TX
I'm definitely taking your advice seriously, but she's been out cold since the other day. :) When she wakes I have a tub I can use as a lay-box to see if she's interested.

As far as the sand, I want to take one thing at a time like you said. Thanks again and good to have you back. :) Make sure you take a boatload of pics when you pick your little one out.
 

river-7

Juvenile Dragon
3 Year Member
Messages
665
Location
Mississauga-ontario canada
Hi; Augie; How is your baby going?? Hope she is doing a little better. Picked out my baby today and she is a little doll she is a hatchling about 3- 4-weeks but looks good clear eyes, good little belly on her and she is a red orange leather back[that's my colour ] as I don't know the terms for them but she is a little sweetheart. I held her and she was very calm and use to being held and I figured if I didn't take her someone that knew nothing would have and she would not stand a chance.so this will be a challenge for me and I hope I succeed. She has a fat little belly and is eating well Soo right now I am testing her lights to bring it up to temp.When I held her she layed very quietly in my hands and has shed on her head-from what I understand they shed almost 7-14-days after birth or so it has been mentioned.I did not sleep all night as I had to pick up a lot of things for her. Lights ect;Her crix; are being gut-loaded with veggies and pellet's, and their 3/8th size. And I got a boat load of pheinx worms[sp] So I don't think I have missed anything as yet. But if you think of anything I might have forgotton please let me know.Her temp is up to 98% so far and that's been a few hours and I have a thermo-temp on her heat sourse to keep it regulated at the same temp. Bought a new type of UVB-Repti-sun-10.0 T5 Ho high out-put electronic ballast. Don't know what their all about but has a 3-prong plug so have to use extentsion [sp]with it.well I found the little bath tub-and I have a med so I cleaned them and in the oven for 2-hours at 300% So should be fine. She is going to be 1-spoiled baby-now a name I will have to think of.And I think we are all set. her tank is kind of bare for now until she gets a little bigger and she will find her crix faster and easier.
Well if you can think of anything I might have missed please let me know.And please tell that little girl of your's to smarten up and feel better and have some good poops for you.Talk to her Augie; They love to be talked to and I believe with all my heart they know you belong to them as their servant of course. Talk later River-aka-Bella
 

river-7

Juvenile Dragon
3 Year Member
Messages
665
Location
Mississauga-ontario canada
Augie; With your baby you can pile her sand that's there in the corner with a lay box covered up with sand when your trying different things and see if she goes in. Give her room to tunnel in if she needs too. But trial and error will prevail. river-7-good luck.If she lays eggs then you will know her problem as I read on that last night [it's on Germs site some good info there and worth reading.] I wanted to register but his site didn't recognize my email address.River-7-PPS: They do get constipated when about to lay eggs but also some never do-I believe GERM; Said he had 1-for 7-years that never did lay.[ Stay tuned.] And if she lays it depleats her of calcium. Keep that in mind.
 

river-7

Juvenile Dragon
3 Year Member
Messages
665
Location
Mississauga-ontario canada
Baby is home and a little stressed but not too bad. She is checking out her new digs and right now she's looking at her phenix [sp] worms. She is no bigger then my little finger so very tiny.Bought a timer for her today and had the shop set it for me 12-on and 12-off staring at 7-pm lights out and 7-am lights on. I find every baby I have got is shedding or going into a shed and that includes this baby. She is starting on her head.How is your little girl today?? I'm hoping a little better. Well I have 2-tanks to clean tonight as soon as my gecko's wake up. My leopard gecko I had to buy a Repti-I Shelter bigger one as she was having a hard time with her baby one. She has grown soo much, well she knocks of 2-3-horn worms per day lol. Man she is full size and then some now. Those 2-were the only lizards I had left when I had to rehome the dragons. Well hope you come soon and let me know how your baby is-River-7
 

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