Advice needed asap please

[Christine B]

Hello! I have recently "rescued" two beardies. They are a sibling pair and are probably just over a year old. They have always been housed together but I currently have plans to separate them... as soon as I can get a second habitat. I have had them maybe 3 weeks... They both appeared to be in very good health and very happy until the last few days... Last Thursday I gave them both a bath and changed their habitat from a reptile carpet to sand. I used calcium sand that I purchased from a reputable pet store becuase I didn't feel safe using just play sand... I have just started noticing that the females eyes are almost always half closed now... and it doesn't appear as if she has eaten in the last two days... They both ate great on Sunday... I offerred 3 dozen crickets and they ate them with relish... but the next day I noticed quite a few cricket bodies as if they had been expelled somehow... She does not appear to be eating at all anymore... I haven't seen her doing any digging or I would assume that she is preganat. He does not appear to have any health issues at this time...

 

[Michele654]

Get the sand out a.s.a.p... all Herp Vets will tell you sand is not good in a Viv. Paper or reptile carpet is best. With sand they can ingest it while eating cricket and cause impaction. Sand can hold some of the feces bacteria which can be transmitted back to your beardie. Pets Store are the worst to give advice. Best is ask the pros here on this site..I'm sure they will assist you further.

 

[lexi]

Michele is right - sand is bad, and calcisand (despite what the store that sold it to you would say) is the WORST thing for them. Use newspaper, paper towels, or tile (you can buy tile fairly cheap at any Home Depot) - play sand is better than calcisand, but not by much. No sand is best.

If they're not eating, and it sounds like either one or both of them has vomited, you need to get them to a herp vet ASAP. Sand can cause impactions in beardies (meaning it plugs their digestive system completely, and will kill them if not promptly treated). Sand can also cause irritation to their eyes. I would get the sand out right away.

You don't mention what your temps are (basking and cool side), what UVB source and lighting you're using, etc. This information would be very helpful. Not having temps high enough will also cause problems with their digestion. They need to be able to get their bodies to at least 95 degrees to digest their food.

 

[zebraflavencs]

In addition to the above mentioned hazards....relocation stress could be the issues with everything else... We do need to know what temps, how you measure, and what uvb you are using... if you followed the pet shops advice, most likely they got a high dollar sale on stuff that is inappropriate for dragons.
Janie

 

[Christine B]

I have two "basking lights" for them in a 75 gal aquarium... one is 150W and one is 75... when I got them they only had a 60W bulb for a basking site! And the temp hardly ever got above 85... Now it sits right around 100 degrees right above their basking sites (I use a stick on themometer). The habitat came with a flourescent strip which I have not replaced... I leave them in "day" for 14 to 15 hours a day and at night I have both a red bulb and a blue bulb to maintain heat. On Thursday (before I changed the habitat) she had a runny stool... she did void her bowels in the water also. She has had "diarrhea" since then... I let her out of the habitat to run around the house on the weekend and each time she was out of the habitat she voided her bowels. I have them on a daily diet of greens (collard, mustard and turnip) and I add a small amount of spring mix. They get a pinkie every Thursday and this is also bath night and every Sunday they are offerred 3 dozen crickets.

 

[lexi]

I have two "basking lights" for them in a 75 gal aquarium... one is 150W and one is 75... when I got them they only had a 60W bulb for a basking site! And the temp hardly ever got above 85... Now it sits right around 100 degrees right above their basking sites (I use a stick on themometer). The habitat came with a flourescent strip which I have not replaced... I leave them in "day" for 14 to 15 hours a day and at night I have both a red bulb and a blue bulb to maintain heat. On Thursday (before I changed the habitat) she had a runny stool... she did void her bowels in the water also. She has had "diarrhea" since then... I let her out of the habitat to run around the house on the weekend and each time she was out of the habitat she voided her bowels. I have them on a daily diet of greens (collard, mustard and turnip) and I add a small amount of spring mix. They get a pinkie every Thursday and this is also bath night and every Sunday they are offerred 3 dozen crickets.

The stick on thermometers can be off by up to 20 degrees. The better bet would be to get a probe thermometer (they sell them at PetCo and PetSmart for about $7) or the best would be a temp gun (tempgun.com), which is a bit more expensive but is the best thing for measuring temps. Basking site needs to be 105F degrees with 85F on the cool side during the day. Night temps can drop into the 70's but never ever lower than 65F.

What brand is the florescent tube light you're using for UVB? If it's older than 6 months, it probably is not emitting any UVB anymore, even if the light is still on. I would replace that ASAP with a ReptiSun 10.

The red and blue bulbs are no good for beardies. They can see them at night and it will disrupt their sleep patterns. A ceramic heat emitter (a bulb which emits heat but no light) is best.

 

[zebraflavencs]

Okay... things to change.
No pinkies... that's way old school and dragons really don't need that sort of protein in captivity.. they get what they need protein wise from insects.
Nix on the colored lights... they can see them, and it will make their sleep less restful. If you need heat at night, then go with a Ceramic Heat Element.. no light, plenty of warmth for their needs.
I still am not seeing a UVB. Reptisun 10.0 is the ticket here in the states. Petmountain.com, or the store here on this forum has those.
For the loose stool, get a sample and run it up to a herp vet.. check for parasites.
if one has them, they both do, doubtless.
Stick on therms are quite inaccurate... either a digi with probe (you can find those normally at the local walmart) or a temp gun gives you the accuracy needed.
Since those are so off (by 20*F +/-) what you see as 100 could be 120...Or 80... see what I mean ?
How often do you plan to offer the insects ? Greens are good, but that spring mix should only be used as a treat item.
Here is a great list to help you choose a healthy diet:
http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html
Items in green are for daily foods.. Black means treats, 1-2 times a week. Just ignore the rest...Let's do that first... and see what happens Okay sweets ?
Janie

 

[renich]

Hi, Christine and welcome to the forum. Congrats on your beardies! It is great that you have rescued them.

It appears that everyone has given you excellent advice. I just wanted to add that once you get the basics down, it is pretty easy to take care of bearded dragons. We were all in your shoes at one time or another. So, please don't get overwhelmed.

Here is a link to our basic caresheet. It lists the essentials you need for bearded dragon care -
Bearded Dragon Care

 

[Christine B]

I checked with the previous caretaker and found out that he hadn't replaced the UVB bulb in over a year... so I went to the store last night and picked up a new 10.0 UVB bulb. I thought maybe a bath would help her and it was only after the bath that I realized she is shedding... could this be the reason for the lack of appetite and the lethargy?

 

[renich]

A shed could definitely bring on a lack of appetite and decreased activity, but not lethargy. See if you notice a difference with the new UV light. Just want to verify that it is the ReptiSun 10.0 tube light you bought.

 

[Christine B]

Yes, sorry meant to put that in there.. They did have the ReptiSun 8.0 before but it hadn't been replaced in over a year.

 

[lexi]

I checked with the previous caretaker and found out that he hadn't replaced the UVB bulb in over a year... so I went to the store last night and picked up a new 10.0 UVB bulb. I thought maybe a bath would help her and it was only after the bath that I realized she is shedding... could this be the reason for the lack of appetite and the lethargy?

When we got Sal (our male) it was a similar situation, except that it had been 2 years with the same light. They thought it was fine because the light never burned out. There was a definite change in his behavior once we got him proper UVB! He got downright spunky ;D I'll bet it will be the same with your girl.

 

[renich]

Yes, sorry meant to put that in there.. They did have the ReptiSun 8.0 before but it hadn't been replaced in over a year.

Great, that is a good bulb. Actually, the best tube on the market. You should see changes in her pretty quickly. how is she acting today?

 

[Christine B]

Well I have been at work all day unfortunately... My Kids say that she has still been "lazy" today but with her shedding too I am ready to be patient

 

[renich]

Couple of others things to consider -

Have you considered getting a digital probe thermometer? I think Lexi pointed out that the stick ons can be 20 degrees off. Temperature has a lot to do with their activity levels too.

When was the last time she pooped?

Most likely it is UV coupled with shedding and relocation stress. Just want to make sure we don't overlook anything.

 

[Christine B]

She hasn't pooped in a few days now... but she hasn't really been eating much either... her activity has spiked a bit since the new bulb and I have continued nightly soaks to help with the shedding. She was so sweet last night... I took her out of the tub and wrapped her in a towel and she climbed out of the towel, up my shirt and cuddled up right under my chin and closed her eyes. I am fairly confident that she is okay now and as soon as this shed is over she will be much better. The previous owner (who had her from egg) claims... this is her first shed... which of course we all know is impossible since she is full grown... but perhaps this is a first of some sort for her...

 

[renich]

Well, I think she is one lucky lady to have you caring for her now. Keep an eye on her. Beardies can go a couple of days without food, but not weeks.

Since she wasn't cared for properly, you may want to consider having her checked out by a herp vet. Here's a directory to find one in your area:
Herp Vet Directory

 

[Christine B]

Thanks for the directory! There are none listed for my State of course... Nessira seemed to get better for a few days! I even got her to eat a bit on Saturday by handfeeding her... I soaked some Adult Dragon pellets in water and got her to eat a few of them and gut loaded some meal worms and she ate those also. Yesterday she got worse again... very lethargic and lazy... Sunday is cricket day and she normally runs after them and tries to catch more than her Brother... but not yesterday... she barely showed any interest in them at all and only ate one or two. She did have a bowel movement out of the Viv on Saturday that was less runny than I have seen from her lately... Her shed is almost done on her back but is barely started on her belly... I don't know how to help her.

 

[ladyknite]

It sounds like you've got a couple of possibilities facing you at the moment.

The lethargy, lack of appetite, and diarrhea all point to parasites or high coccidia load. One typically causes the other to bloom out of control.

Considering their ages, and the fact that they are housed together, I would assume the male is being "male" and attempting to mate. Upon relocation, a possible parasite issue, and diarrhea, this could cause her more problems.

Even a doggie vet can run a fecal for a bearded dragon. He's looking for simple parasites like pins, tapes, ect. And coccidia. Mammalian vets count differently on slides than herpers do. So his numbers will have to be divided. Ask him if he can count coccidia by field for you. Shoot us the numbers.......and we'll let you know if they're high.

Good Luck.

 

[Christine B]

Egads! And now it is obvious that she is pregnant! Time for more research...