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Mixed Symptoms--Constipation, Impaction, Brumation, or Just Trying to Make Me Worry

SocksandLizards

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
8
So, I took Gurgi to the vet a few months ago because he was constantly swallowing at bedtime, and I had read that could be a respiratory infection, and she said he was constipated. I was really surprised because he was pooping regularly. She gave me a laxative, and I gave it to him 1-2 times a day like she recommended for a few weeks. He seemed okay to me, passing like normal, so I stopped the medicine.

I ended up taking him back to the vet because I felt a large lump near his sternum, but she ended up telling me that was just one of his organs I was feeling. She did tell me, though, that his calcium was low, and that was probably why he got constipated.

Now, Gurgi is quite overweight. I was trying a new diet that didn't come with calcium already on it. I tried putting the powder on it and he wouldn't eat it, so I went back to his old food. It's a pre-made dried mixed coated with calcium, so when you soak it, the calcium doesn't wash off or clump up. He loves it.

He's still pooping normally during all of this, though he does appear to be straining when I put him in the bath.

Another thing to note is that he has become less active the past few months. I haven't been letting him out as much because of the cold, and when I do, he just tries to find somewhere to sleep. The past few weeks, I've had to wake him up some days, and, more recently, I have to physically put him in his basking spot. I wouldn't, as it seems he may want to brumate, but he's still eating every day and I know he needs to get the poops out.

I make sure he has clean water every day, and I've started giving him baths once a week, now twice a week. When I rub his belly, I do feel a lump on the left side, which the vet said she had felt the first time I went. He doesn't seem to be in pain at all. When I rub his belly, he almost immediately poops. He hasn't thrown up, and even seems like he's eating more than he used to.

Gurgi is 7 years old, and his basking temperatures have been pretty much the same the whole time I've had him. The temperatures are a bit lower than a lot of people say they should be, but if I get it above 90, he won't stay in his basking spot. I've increased his basking temperature some by buying him a new basking platform that sits closer to the light, and he seems to like it. The temp is ~89.5 by his shoulders. I know people say it should be higher, but, again, he doesn't like it. He's been doing just fine for years with it around 85.

Oh, and his back legs are a little shaky when he tries to turn around, which is why the vet said his calcium was low. But when he does feel like running around, he runs just fine.

I think that's everything. Oh, and I'm starting the laxative again, though he's still pooping fine. His poops are smaller than usual, too.

I know other people are asking about something similar, but the difference is that Gurgi is still pooping and eating regularly, so I really have no clue what the issue is.
 

Sadie

Bearded Dragon Veteran
3 Year Member
1,000+ Post Club
Messages
10,795
So, I took Gurgi to the vet a few months ago because he was constantly swallowing at bedtime, and I had read that could be a respiratory infection, and she said he was constipated. I was really surprised because he was pooping regularly. She gave me a laxative, and I gave it to him 1-2 times a day like she recommended for a few weeks. He seemed okay to me, passing like normal, so I stopped the medicine.

I ended up taking him back to the vet because I felt a large lump near his sternum, but she ended up telling me that was just one of his organs I was feeling. She did tell me, though, that his calcium was low, and that was probably why he got constipated.

Now, Gurgi is quite overweight. I was trying a new diet that didn't come with calcium already on it. I tried putting the powder on it and he wouldn't eat it, so I went back to his old food. It's a pre-made dried mixed coated with calcium, so when you soak it, the calcium doesn't wash off or clump up. He loves it.

He's still pooping normally during all of this, though he does appear to be straining when I put him in the bath.

Another thing to note is that he has become less active the past few months. I haven't been letting him out as much because of the cold, and when I do, he just tries to find somewhere to sleep. The past few weeks, I've had to wake him up some days, and, more recently, I have to physically put him in his basking spot. I wouldn't, as it seems he may want to brumate, but he's still eating every day and I know he needs to get the poops out.

I make sure he has clean water every day, and I've started giving him baths once a week, now twice a week. When I rub his belly, I do feel a lump on the left side, which the vet said she had felt the first time I went. He doesn't seem to be in pain at all. When I rub his belly, he almost immediately poops. He hasn't thrown up, and even seems like he's eating more than he used to.

Gurgi is 7 years old, and his basking temperatures have been pretty much the same the whole time I've had him. The temperatures are a bit lower than a lot of people say they should be, but if I get it above 90, he won't stay in his basking spot. I've increased his basking temperature some by buying him a new basking platform that sits closer to the light, and he seems to like it. The temp is ~89.5 by his shoulders. I know people say it should be higher, but, again, he doesn't like it. He's been doing just fine for years with it around 85.

Oh, and his back legs are a little shaky when he tries to turn around, which is why the vet said his calcium was low. But when he does feel like running around, he runs just fine.

I think that's everything. Oh, and I'm starting the laxative again, though he's still pooping fine. His poops are smaller than usual, too.

I know other people are asking about something similar, but the difference is that Gurgi is still pooping and eating regularly, so I really have no clue what the issue is.
No more laxatives -- if the dragon is going to the bathroom hes fine- if hes straining to go feed him some plain canned pumpkin this is a natural laxative--- his surface basking temps should be 95-100 taken w/ a digital probe thermometer - offer him a gradient heat w/ the numbers I posted see where he will sit- this is what starts his digestion -- you did not mention a UVB --- this is huge for him to be absorbing the calcium your feeding him ---- if your using a coil this is a big issue--- coils will cause all kinds of health issues --- MBD for one---- if your using a long tube fixture what is the brand and the bulb please --- the screen on your tank will determine where this needs to be placed and distanced --- and how old the bulb is as well --
 

SocksandLizards

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
8
No more laxatives -- if the dragon is going to the bathroom hes fine- if hes straining to go feed him some plain canned pumpkin this is a natural laxative--- his surface basking temps should be 95-100 taken w/ a digital probe thermometer - offer him a gradient heat w/ the numbers I posted see where he will sit- this is what starts his digestion -- you did not mention a UVB --- this is huge for him to be absorbing the calcium your feeding him ---- if your using a coil this is a big issue--- coils will cause all kinds of health issues --- MBD for one---- if your using a long tube fixture what is the brand and the bulb please --- the screen on your tank will determine where this needs to be placed and distanced --- and how old the bulb is as well --
UVB is Reptisun, 13watt 10.0 for desert. It's the one that looks like two prongs. I've alternated between that and the coils, and he's never had any problems before. His temps have been consistent until I increased it recently, and he's never had any problems. The platform I bought is rather large and inclined, so some days he sits at the bottom, and some days he climbs all the way to the top. I replace his UVB every 3-4 months. Sooner if it's a brand I've never used before. This one is about 2 months old. I was planning to replace it at the end of the month.
 

Sadie

Bearded Dragon Veteran
3 Year Member
1,000+ Post Club
Messages
10,795
UVB is Reptisun, 13watt 10.0 for desert. It's the one that looks like two prongs. I've alternated between that and the coils, and he's never had any problems before. His temps have been consistent until I increased it recently, and he's never had any problems. The platform I bought is rather large and inclined, so some days he sits at the bottom, and some days he climbs all the way to the top. I replace his UVB every 3-4 months. Sooner if it's a brand I've never used before. This one is about 2 months old. I was planning to replace it at the end of the month.
Please get rid of all the coils!!!!!!!!!! They are NO good --- you want a 24" fixture for a 40 + gallon tank posting 3 of them please get one of there as soon as possible
Zoo Med comes w/a 5.0 bulb you want the bulb I post for it
22" Resptisun 10.0 T 5 https://www.pangeareptile.com/colle...d-reptisun-10-0-uvb-t5?variant=26907418591332
or this one it can be also found at Pet Smart - you want the 12% bulb 24 watt
https://www.pangeareptile.com/colle.../products/arcadia-prot5-12-uvb-bulb-with-hood
or this one you will need to change the bulb out to the Reptisun posted above
https://hydrobuilder.com/sunblaster...mp.html?opts=eyJhdHRyaWJ1dGU5MDEiOiI2NjEwIn0=
these are all good fixtures -- please post back on here when you get it replaced and I will help you place it for your tank -- the screen is going to determine where it needs to go for placement and distance - please shut the coil UVB off its not doing him any good --- the 13 watt are terrible and I have seen so many deformed dragons or dead ones -- please get rid of it
 

SocksandLizards

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
8
Please get rid of all the coils!!!!!!!!!! They are NO good --- you want a 24" fixture for a 40 + gallon tank posting 3 of them please get one of there as soon as possible
Zoo Med comes w/a 5.0 bulb you want the bulb I post for it
22" Resptisun 10.0 T 5 https://www.pangeareptile.com/colle...d-reptisun-10-0-uvb-t5?variant=26907418591332
or this one it can be also found at Pet Smart - you want the 12% bulb 24 watt
https://www.pangeareptile.com/colle.../products/arcadia-prot5-12-uvb-bulb-with-hood
or this one you will need to change the bulb out to the Reptisun posted above
https://hydrobuilder.com/sunblaster...mp.html?opts=eyJhdHRyaWJ1dGU5MDEiOiI2NjEwIn0=
these are all good fixtures -- please post back on here when you get it replaced and I will help you place it for your tank -- the screen is going to determine where it needs to go for placement and distance - please shut the coil UVB off its not doing him any good --- the 13 watt are terrible and I have seen so many deformed dragons or dead ones -- please get rid of it
I've tried those before but I couldn't ever get it set up in his tank. I can try to get one again, but that doesn't really help with his current issue since I've been using the coils for 7 years and he's only recently had any problems. Other than his weight, he's been perfectly healthy and happy.
 

Sadie

Bearded Dragon Veteran
3 Year Member
1,000+ Post Club
Messages
10,795
I've tried those before but I couldn't ever get it set up in his tank. I can try to get one again, but that doesn't really help with his current issue since I've been using the coils for 7 years and he's only recently had any problems. Other than his weight, he's been perfectly healthy and happy.
The shaking of the back legs is a good sign of mbd- your dragon is getting sick they won't show signs of it as that is instinct - please get rid of the coil I can help you place it in the tank-- to be honest I am surprised he's lived this long under a coil and not sicker than we can see-
 

SocksandLizards

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
8
The shaking of the back legs is a good sign of mbd- your dragon is getting sick they won't show signs of it as that is instinct - please get rid of the coil I can help you place it in the tank-- to be honest I am surprised he's lived this long under a coil and not sicker than we can see-
Sure, I'll replace the light. But I'm fairly positive that isn't the issue, because, again, he only started having problems recently. Really, it was only after I tried to put him on a diet, but he's still having issues now that I'veswitched him back. I can replace the light, but that still isn't helping with what's going on now. He's been to the vet. He doesn't have MBD. He's overweight, but otherwise fine. You seem to be stuck on one thing that obviously isn't the issue, or else it would have come up way before now.
 

Sadie

Bearded Dragon Veteran
3 Year Member
1,000+ Post Club
Messages
10,795
Sure, I'll replace the light. But I'm fairly positive that isn't the issue, because, again, he only started having problems recently. Really, it was only after I tried to put him on a diet, but he's still having issues now that I'veswitched him back. I can replace the light, but that still isn't helping with what's going on now. He's been to the vet. He doesn't have MBD. He's overweight, but otherwise fine. You seem to be stuck on one thing that obviously isn't the issue, or else it would have come up way before now.
I can only tell you that coils are no good --- are you using a solid clear bright white basking bulb? Colored off white and yellowish or daytime bulbs are not any good and have a coating on them called
Neodymium bulbs the neodymium coating which is a rare earth mineral, decreases the CRI or Color Rendering Index which affects the overall brightness. It does this by
cutting the yellow color range out to make it appear brighter but since reptiles are very sensitive to light & can see more of the spectrum than we can it is best to use a bright white light for basking
instead.
It was a coincidence that the starting of the diet was/ is causing issues --
 

SocksandLizards

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
8
I can only tell you that coils are no good --- are you using a solid clear bright white basking bulb? Colored off white and yellowish or daytime bulbs are not any good and have a coating on them called
Neodymium bulbs the neodymium coating which is a rare earth mineral, decreases the CRI or Color Rendering Index which affects the overall brightness. It does this by
cutting the yellow color range out to make it appear brighter but since reptiles are very sensitive to light & can see more of the spectrum than we can it is best to use a bright white light for basking
instead.
It was a coincidence that the starting of the diet was/ is causing issues --
I only use white basking bulbs. I used the nighttime ones when he was younger for sleeping, but I read that wasn't good, so I stopped.

I really appreciate your advice, and I absolutely will do anything and everything to optimize his environment. He is my everything. However, while your advice is great in general, and I do intend on getting him a new UVB, this isn't particularly constructive for the current issue.

Sure, the diet could be a coincidence if I had just gotten him, but he's been fine his whole life. Maybe I could optimize his lights, and hopefully make his digestion easier, but those factors haven't changed, so logic dictates that they wouldn't suddenly cause issues after 7 years. I'm not stupid. I've done years of research, reading everything I can find, and when I got him, I did everything that everyone said to do and none of the things they said not to do. But information varies, and a lot of it conflicts. In the end, I let Gurgi decide what was best for him. He didn't like it really hot, so I didn't force him into it. As long as he's acting fine and normal, I've let him do his thing. Anytime he changes, I do more research and take him to the vet. I posted here because I was trying to figure out if this was an emergency, or something easily taken care of at home. I couldn't find anywhere talking about his specific symptoms, so I thought I would ask myself.
 

Sadie

Bearded Dragon Veteran
3 Year Member
1,000+ Post Club
Messages
10,795
Here is a pic of a dragon that was posted on this forum - this dragon has been under a coil all of its life - I tried to get them to switch over to a long tube when they posted but they never did as far as I know --- I am sure this dragon has since passed --
1702842855608.png

Sure, I'll replace the light. But I'm fairly positive that isn't the issue, because, again, he only started having problems recently. Really, it was only after I tried to put him on a diet, but he's still having issues now that I'veswitched him back. I can replace the light, but that still isn't helping with what's going on now. He's been to the vet. He doesn't have MBD. He's overweight, but otherwise fine. You seem to be stuck on one thing that obviously isn't the issue, or else it would have come up way before now.
If gurgi is pooping he's not constipated- I am flagging your post to Tracie she is a vet tech on here- he could be slowing down because of the weather- appetite activity all play a factor in behavior but also the uvb-
@Drache613
 

SocksandLizards

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
8
Here is a pic of a dragon that was posted on this forum - this dragon has been under a coil all of its life - I tried to get them to switch over to a long tube when they posted but they never did as far as I know --- I am sure this dragon has since passed --
View attachment 35192

If gurgi is pooping he's not constipated- I am flagging your post to Tracie she is a vet tech on here- he could be slowing down because of the weather- appetite activity all play a factor in behavior but also the uvb-
@Drache613
That's absolutely horrific. Why would you even post that here? Gurgi looks absolutely nothing like that, and never has. I read everything there is about MBD when I learned what it was after I got him, and I've done everything I can to prevent that. I've had him checked by several vets, and the only time even his calcium levels were brought up was after I changed his diet. I've told vets exactly what lights I use, and none of them have said they were wrong. I've never heard anyone say they were before now. But still, I'm willing to change them if it would better his quality of life.

And it was the vet who told me he was constipated, even though he was pooping normally. She said there can be a blockage, and other poop can move around it, though not as much. I know this is true for humans, but I didn't know it could happen with dragons as well.

I know shaky legs can be a sign of MBD, but it only happens when he's trying to turn around with limited space, like on the couch. He can run across the room without issue. He kicks me when I try to clean around his little butthole, and it's quite a strong kick. He's shaky when he turns and doesn't pick his stomach off the ground, which could be because of his weight, among other things. I'm not trying to write that off, but I know it isn't MBD, so I don't see what the point was in posting such a horrible, awful picture other than trying to make me violently ill.
 

Sadie

Bearded Dragon Veteran
3 Year Member
1,000+ Post Club
Messages
10,795
That's absolutely horrific. Why would you even post that here? Gurgi looks absolutely nothing like that, and never has. I read everything there is about MBD when I learned what it was after I got him, and I've done everything I can to prevent that. I've had him checked by several vets, and the only time even his calcium levels were brought up was after I changed his diet. I've told vets exactly what lights I use, and none of them have said they were wrong. I've never heard anyone say they were before now. But still, I'm willing to change them if it would better his quality of life.

And it was the vet who told me he was constipated, even though he was pooping normally. She said there can be a blockage, and other poop can move around it, though not as much. I know this is true for humans, but I didn't know it could happen with dragons as well.

I know shaky legs can be a sign of MBD, but it only happens when he's trying to turn around with limited space, like on the couch. He can run across the room without issue. He kicks me when I try to clean around his little butthole, and it's quite a strong kick. He's shaky when he turns and doesn't pick his stomach off the ground, which could be because of his weight, among other things. I'm not trying to write that off, but I know it isn't MBD, so I don't see what the point was in posting such a horrible, awful picture other than trying to make me violently ill.
The pic was an example of what happens to dragons under coils-- that was posted on this website a while back -- I was not trying to make you ill -- it was posted as to what happens or can happen to dragons under coils --from what I have seen w/ being on this forum and another one for years the outcome w/ coils and dragons has not been good --- I am going to let Tracie see if she can help you here --- shes going to recommend the same thing I am about the UVB --- it is your choice to change it out ---
 

SocksandLizards

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
8
The pic was an example of what happens to dragons under coils-- that was posted on this website a while back -- I was not trying to make you ill -- it was posted as to what happens or can happen to dragons under coils --from what I have seen w/ being on this forum and another one for years the outcome w/ coils and dragons has not been good --- I am going to let Tracie see if she can help you here --- shes going to recommend the same thing I am about the UVB --- it is your choice to change it out ---
There was clearly more wrong with that dragon than just using a coil light. How often did they change it? How close did she sit? How many hours a day was it on? How much calcium were they giving her? Did they feed her things that might hinder the absorption of calcium, or the production of vitamin D? There are many, many things that can cause MBD. If it were only caused by a coil light, me and a ton of other owners would have sick or dead dragons, and there would be absolutely no healthy dragons using coil lights.

However, I have said multiple times that I would change his light. Could we possibly move past that? He has a more immediate issue that I'm trying to figure out. I just wanted to come on here so I would have some idea of how bad it might be, because if the vet recommends surgery, I have no clue if I should take her word or get a second opinion. I absolutely do not want to get him surgery unless it is the last possible option. I was hoping some other people might have experience with this, since Gurgi has never had the issue before.
 

SocksandLizards

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
8
Update: Gurgi is fine. The vet never actually said for sure that he was at the level of impaction, but he definitely has some blockage. He managed to get part of it out when she rubbed his belly, but he still has a bigger one on the left side. She said his muscles are a lot stronger than last time, since I put him back on his old diet, so she seemed pretty confident that laxatives and fiber should take care of it. If it doesn't, it may come to surgery. But she did say there wasn't any real danger yet since he can still manage to poop some.
 

Drache613

Hatchling Dragon
Messages
237
Hello,

Sorry little Gurgi has had some trouble! Impaction or constipation either one is caused by a multitude
of factors. I am assuming you have a solid substrate & not sand? Just wondering why he would be
impacted?
Did the vet confirm that he did not have metabolic bone disease but just had low calcium? As Sadie
has mentioned, they often go years without showing any signs of illness, it is a survival mechanism.
Reptiles have a very complex digestive system & metabolic system. They also can maintain a certain
level of calcium & D3 stores in their system, depending on genetics. Some hold on longer than others,
but after awhile their levels of calcium & D3 stored in their body will fall if they aren't provided adequate
UVB exposure & calcium supplementation. They wont be able to properly absorb it & the bones will
become leached of calcium so that homeostasis of calcium blood serum will stay optimal. Since he
does have some shakiness or back leg weakness, this is one of the telltale signs of early metabolic
bone disease. It has just taken this long to set in, since he is 7.
As for the impaction or constipation, are you giving some softer foods, such as sweet potato, squash
& sugar free applesauce along with a few drops of organic coconut oil to help with moving things through
his system?

Tracie
 

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