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My local reptile guy has something against crickets

Bryce Anthony

Hatchling Dragon
3 Year Member
Messages
32
Location
Riverside, CA
The guy who owns the reptile shop closest to my house has on multiple occasions told me that I'm not feeding correctly and compared crickets to Doritos and basically compared me to an irresponsible parent. Then he tries to sell me goliath worms and super worms instead. I mostly ignore it because everything I learned when I first got her was the complete opposite. Can anyone explain to me why he's been telling me this?
 

Mudgett

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
5
He probably makes more money on superworms on goliath worms. Neither of these is as good a staple as crickets, as long as the crickets are gut-loaded first. If you wanted to try other feeders, phoenix worms and dubia roaches are really good for beardies.
 

Bryce Anthony

Hatchling Dragon
3 Year Member
Messages
32
Location
Riverside, CA
Alright. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being foolish to assume he was just trying to sell me on something more profitable.

I've also been wondering lately how many crickets daily is typical feed for an adult dragon. Because if I let her decide when she's done eating, she'll eat 30 large crickets minimum in one feeding. For a while, I've been cutting her off around 20. Lately, I've dropped that to around 10.
 

Luvthemanimal

Bearded Dragon Veteran
Messages
832
Location
London Ontario Canada
Let em eat until there full.

And crickets have almost zero nutritional value unless they r gut loaded. Which is why he's prob pushing for the worms and because he makes more money of the worms.
 

Bryce Anthony

Hatchling Dragon
3 Year Member
Messages
32
Location
Riverside, CA
When I first got her, I read that once they mature, their diet should be switched from mostly animal protein to mostly greens. I forgot the ratios it suggested but I still have the book somewhere. Should I be feeding any differently now that she's 2 years old or should I still be feeding her as many crickets as she wants each day?

I noticed she's also starting to get little fat lumps behind her arms. Is that pretty normal or should I change anything? Aside from her crickets (usually about 20), she gets a bowl of mustard greens each day. I occasionally switch up what greens I feed her, but I've found she seems to like the mustard greens the most and eats them the most consistently.
 

Luvthemanimal

Bearded Dragon Veteran
Messages
832
Location
London Ontario Canada
Her age more greens less insects. Is what they say.

But way I think of it is feed em the same either way. In the wild I doubt they go hey I'm old let's eat more green crap and let the jumpy guys live longer. Lol.

Maybe do insects ever other day instead of every day. Me however, will keep doing greens daily with insects daily. I also tend to not feed them Sundays sobtheubget a break so to speak.
 

Germ

Bearded Dragon Veteran
3 Year Member
1,000+ Post Club
Messages
4,493
Location
North America
That ratio of 80%-20% & 20%-80% is a joke. Just exactly how would a person determine that, by weight, by volume, by sight, what? If you are feeding greens daily as it should be, your BD will self regulate the live prey intake on it's own. Feed live prey daily until you notice as adults that their appetite slows naturally, then start on every other day live prey feedings, then to 2-3 times a week.
Feeding/Supplements: Bearded dragons are omnivorous and must be fed a diet consisting of both vegetation and live prey. Vegetables and greens should be offered daily and a wide variety of acceptable veg/greens is the best approach. There are several websites available that provide very helpful suggestions and information on preferred veg/greens based on their acceptability and nutritional content. An excellent and non biased place to start for this information is Veronica Reilly’s "Nutrition Content” page Here.

Staple prey items generally consist of crickets, roaches &/or locusts. Silkworms & Phoenix worms are a decent frequent feeder, while other worms such as waxworms, butterworms, mealworms, and superworms are considered "occasional" feeders. Almost all worms are quite fatty, so should be kept more as treats. "Dusting” of ALL live prey with appropriate calcium and vitamin supplements is a necessity to maintain good health. Dusting is a process that refers to lightly coating greens or live prey with supplements to ensure all of the additional requirements for proper growth and development are met. It is simplest to sprinkle the supplements into a plastic freezer bag that contains the prey and gently shaking until coated. Only dust live prey or greens, depending on the age of the dragon, but it is not necessary to dust both. Live prey must be “Gut Loaded” prior to feeding, this means your feeders are fed a high protein diet, for a minimum of 24 hrs prior to being fed to the Bearded Dragon, to ensure they have an acceptable nutritional value for your dragon by having fresh gutload still in their belly. Generally when purchased from a pet store, insects have very little nutrition, thus the need to be Gut Loaded. Beware of online sources that advertise that their feeders are 'Gut Loaded', this is just a marketing ploy, because by the time they are shipped and arrive, there will be very little left in their 'Gut'. Live prey should be offered in a size that is relative to your dragon. A common suggestion is that prey should be no bigger than the space between your dragon’s eyes.

General feeding/supplementation schedule:
For hatchlings and young juveniles (up to 2 months): Fresh greens/veg. 1-2 times daily - Live prey 2-3 times per day
Dusted: Five days per week with phosphorus free calcium – one day per week with calcium + D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.
For juveniles and sub-adults (2 months to sexual maturity): Fresh greens/veg 1-2 times daily - Live prey 1-2 times per day
Dusted: Five days per week with phosphorus free calcium – One day per week with calcium + D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.
For adults (generally 1+ year): Fresh greens/veg 1- 2 times daily - Live prey every 2-3 days.
Dusted: Every other feeding with phosphorus free calcium - Twice per month with calcium + D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

As there are different circumstances that may arise, this schedule is recommended only as a general guide and may be altered to accommodate individual situations. With proper effective strength UVB lighting at acceptable distances (Please see UVB Setup), supplementation with vitamin D3 is not imperative but should provided in small amounts. Excessive levels of oral vitamin D3 can potentially lead to the excessive absorption and utilization of calcium and/or toxicity, as can the excessive use of supplements containing high levels of vitamin A. Over use of any supplement can have the potential to cause serious health problems, stick to an appropriate supplementation schedule.

Here is an article providing a good explanation to give an understanding on the Calcium to Phosphorous & Fat to Protien ratio ...
The main points to look out for are the fat content and the Ca: P ratio.
Ca: P Ratio and Reptiles
Many have heard about the Ca: P ratio but not many understand what it means to your reptiles. The Ca: P ratio is simply the ratio of Calcium compared to Phosphorus and so a Ca: P ratio of 1 (one or 1:1) would mean that Calcium & Phosphorus are found in equal quantities, a Ca: P ratio of 0.5 (half or 0.5:1) means that there is half the amount of Calcium than there is Phosphorus. An ideal Ca: P ratio would be around 2 (two or 2:1) as this will allow calcium to be easily absorbed.
So why is this important? It has to do with the way Calcium is absorbed by your reptile's intestine. For any calcium to be absorbed, there needs to be at least equal quantities of Calcium and Phosphorus in their food. If the Phosphorus is much higher, then not only will it prevent calcium being absorbed, but may even leach calcium that is already present in your reptile's body. This can lead to serious problems such as MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease). When Calcium and Phosphorus are dissolved in equal quantities, it forms an insoluble salt (Calcium Phosphate) which is very difficult to absorb by your reptile's intestine. If there is a large amount of phosphorus compared to the calcium, then all the calcium will be bound by the phosphorus and none will be available for your reptile. If there is a large excess of calcium, then no phosphorus can be absorbed, which is also a vital mineral but not needed in as large a quantity as calcium. Ideally the Ca/P ratio for most vertebrates is around 2 (also written as 2:1).

Fat vs Protein
Another thing to look out for is the amount of fat compared to protein. Fat contains twice as many calories as protein, but doesn't provide any of the nutritional benefits that are gained from proteins from their amino acids which are essential for the health of any living creature. The calories from fat are often called "empty calories" in dietary terminology. Most insectivorous reptiles will receive greater benefit from a high protein/low fat diet.
Source - http://www.leedspetshops.co.uk
Read More: http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3
 

Germ

Bearded Dragon Veteran
3 Year Member
1,000+ Post Club
Messages
4,493
Location
North America
I've also been wondering lately how many crickets daily is typical feed for an adult dragon. Because if I let her decide when she's done eating, she'll eat 30 large crickets minimum in one feeding. For a while, I've been cutting her off around 20. Lately, I've dropped that to around 10.
30 appropriate sized crix is not overfeeding. I used to limit mine to 30-35 crix a day, if they wanted that many. Giving a number for how many crix is good, is difficult, it depends on the size being fed & how well gutloaded they are. Small, medium & large is relative, what one keeper\merchant calls large, another might call small. The best method is the old rule of thumb, feed it all it will eat in a 15 minute period per sitting.
 

Bryce Anthony

Hatchling Dragon
3 Year Member
Messages
32
Location
Riverside, CA
Alright. Thanks for the help. I'll continue to let her decide how much she needs to eat. For the most part, it does seem like her appetite for the crickets has been decreasing a little in favor of the greens lately.

Just a little update on the reptile store guy: yesterday, I heard him tell another customer that his beardie is going to die early from liver damage if he doesn't quit feeding crickets so much without worms, but he didn't say anything when the customer told him he feeds romaine lettuce every day as well.
 

Honchess

Hatchling Dragon
3 Year Member
Messages
93
I like to serve worms/insects AND greens. I have an adult dragon so I just do live food every other day, but she gets a salad with them any way. That way she doesn't gobble quite so many live food and she fills up on salad. Otherwise she's like a kid in a candy shop.:p
 

Hdrydr31

Bearded Dragon Veteran
Staff member
3 Year Member
1,000+ Post Club
Messages
5,574
I always feed a salad to mine daily along with bugs I let them decide what they wanna eat..Way I figure it they will eat what they want I can't dictate it so I offer a wide variety of bugs and greens/veggies ...... I feed my feeder bugs the same as I feed my dragons so that way they are getting what they need.
 

Bobbi

Bearded Dragon Veteran
Messages
309
I also would like to hear his explanation on why you shouldn't feed crickets. Crickets are perfectly fine for beardies as long as they are gut loaded 24hrs before feeding. There really are no correct guidelines to feeding your dragon-80%-20%, 50-50, Whatever. Your dragon is going to eat what s/he wants unless you're not offering it. As long as the dragon is not obese, I see no reason to stop feeding it insects.
 

Draeju's_world

Juvenile Dragon
Messages
142
Location
Raleigh, NC
I gutload crickets with premium fish food (aquarium owner as well) and any old veggies that go uneaten by my baby beardie.. Very nutritous even though my staple feeders are soldier grubs right now.
 
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