Lots of Different Advice about Vitamins

[khaleesi]

My babies are in their starter viv at the moment they have exactly the same setup as their new homes when they separate. They have a 10.0 UVB bulb and a basking light of 40w in the smaller viv and 60w in their big viv's. The dimensions for their big viv is 5ft l x 2ft w x 2.5ft h with lots of cactus's and a hide and pebbles, and branches to bask on. I'm quite happy that all of the above is correct, if not I would take any advice offered!

My question is this:

I dust their food daily with nutrobal vitamins, I alternate the others one day with the multi vitamin and the next with calci-dust except with one difference, I was told by several ''experts'' and read on a few different sites that I should do the same thing with the babies AND have a bowl of calci-dust in the viv with the beardies, so not knowing any different I have for the last 7 days had a small bowl of it in the viv with them, I know (or think I know) they can't over dose on calcium but they play in it and eat it from the bowl so I stopped giving the additional calcium (calci-dust not vitamin) on their food 3 days ago, The nutrobal multi vitamin has calcium in it too 200mg to be precise in a 50g tub of dust per gram. The calci-dust says 400mg per gram in a 150g tub.

Can any of you advise me properly on the correct dosage of calcium and vitamin so I know I'm not causing any unseen damage to them.

 

[Germ]

I would say that you had better check your temps in the big vivs, there is no way that you are going to heat that size of a viv with a 60 watt bulb. What size enclosure is the starter viv?

Here is a really good feeding & supplementation schedule that is included in with the other links previously provided to you.

General feeding/supplementation schedule:
For hatchlings and young juveniles (up to 2 months): Fresh greens/veg. 1-2 times daily - Live prey 2-3 times per day
Dusted: All Live Prey five days per week with phosphorus free calcium – one day per week calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

For juveniles and sub-adults (2 months to sexual maturity): Fresh greens/veg 1-2 times daily - Live prey 1-2 times per day
Dusted: All Live Prey five days per week with phosphorus free calcium – One day per week with calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

For adults (generally 1+ year): Fresh greens/veg 1- 2 times daily - Live prey every 2-3 days.
Dusted: Live Prey every other feeding with phosphorus free calcium - Twice per month with calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

As there are different circumstances that may arise, this schedule is recommended only as a general guide and may be altered to accommodate individual situations. Using a tracking method of when you dust prevents unnecessary use of product and more importantly, potential harm to your dragon! With proper and effective UVB lighting, supplementation with vitamin D3 is not imperative but should be provided in small amounts. Excessive levels of oral vitamin D3 can potentially lead to the excessive absorption and utilization of calcium and/or toxicity as can the excessive use of supplements containing high levels of vitamin A. Over use of any supplement can have the potential to cause serious health problems, stick to an appropriate supplementation schedule.

​

Read more: http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/index.php?threads/basic-bd-care-sheet-a-place-to-start.5177/#ixzz25pD1NHZW​

No need for straight calcium dust in the enclosure. Yes, they can ingest too much Calcium.

 

[khaleesi]

Thank you for your help I'm gonna print out this guide and stick it to my fridge I checked the temps and they are stable at 105-107 degrees basking end and 90 degrees cool end. The viv's and temps are exactly the same in all of my setups. When I brought them home they came from an improper setup of 80 degrees and no uv so I have built and maintained at 95 basking and 85 cool in a 3ft L x 2ft x 2ft viv (what I call their starter viv)

I think they have/started to shed they appear brighter in color and bigger in size but again all this baby stuff is new to me so I don't know if they shed in large strips like an adult or if its small bits.

 

[khaleesi]

I will hazard a guess that the temps are wrong

 

[Germ]

Basking temps must be measured directly at the basking spot, not just the general hot side temp. Cool side, measured low near the floor in the area furthest from the heat bulb. What type of thermometer are you using. In order to take accurate temps a digital thermometer with a sensor\probe that can be placed\attached directly on\to the basking spot is necessary. If your setup allows access to take temps without moving the lights, an infrared (Temp Gun) thermometer can be used.

 

[khaleesi]

I have 3 exo-terra thermometers in each viv one one the wall dead center, one stuck to the main basking rock/log and one on the glass inside at the cool end. I will need to go get a temp gun (I'm not sure what this is I will look around) I have some digital thermometers on order waiting for stock to come in.

I understand rocks are not good for direct basking so I have thick logs but I do have pebbles/rocks in the viv as stepping stone type things.

 

[Mungi's World]

The thermometers you are using arent giving you correct reads. The one stuck on the back wall and the one stuck on the glass are reading the temp.of the wall and the glass. And unless you are using a digital probe attached to the basking spot then you are getting inaccruate temp readings there too.
The infared thermometers are spot on as long as you can use them without obstructed view ie not thru glass or wire and as long as you do not have to move your lighting to use.
Glad to hear that you have the digitals on order and hope that you ordered the type with remote probes.
I will be interested to see what your temps are with accurate thermometers because I am still kind of perplexed as to how you are able to get those temps in that size enclosure with such low wattage bulbs.
Also I know they look cool but you have stated that you have small pebbles in you large enclosure. I would higly recommend that you rethink using them and remove them as small pebbles do pose a risk of accidental ingestion to your dragon. Larger rocks are fine but small pebbles not a great idea.
Enjoy your day

 

[khaleesi]

I say pebbles they are decent sized the smallest of them are maybe 3''x4'' largest being 7''x6'' or so.

I will get some better thermometers and probes asap to attach directly to 2 spots in the viv. Basking and maybe their hides or their favorite cactus. I have them in a really warm room it has direct sunlight all day and I have heating in the room constantly I'm not entirely sure why I'm able to maintain such temp's but I manage it I'm not very technical so my explanations are not great.

I have general health checks regularly the babies are due to visit the vet in a couple of weeks when my others go I try to keep everything to the same dates so I don't trip my self up with missed appointments etc. But I do have a question I've never asked my vet...What information can you give me about worming them? I've never done this I never knew I needed to until I read it on the forum. Is it imperative?

I'm being a pain in the bum I know I am and I apologize my mind races at 100mph and confuse my self and everyone else and shedding too I am lost as to what I'm looking for I know adults generally shed in large sheets of dry skin but what about babies? Is it large sheets or just flakes? They've been rubbing alot on anything and everything and appear bigger in size and brighter in color but I haven't found or seen any skin I watch them most of the day and the kids watch them the rest of the day I'm confused.com lol

 

[Germ]

In over 10 years I have only ever wormed one Dragon. If you are concerned, a Fecal should be done & only medicated if necessary. Any unnecessary medicating that some Vets will try to recommend for preventative medicine should be avoided & is often nothing more than a 'Money Grab', as it will weaken their natural immune system. The best preventative medicine is 'Proper Husbandry'.

Sheds can be patchy, different body parts, but generally are in pieces well big enough to be noticeable.

Many small rocks in an enclosure will provide a haven for live prey to hide, make them difficult to hunt & make cleaning very difficult. The K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) method is the best way.

Cool side temps should be measured at the coolest area of the enclosure (80-85F), not at one of their favorite places, unless that happens to be the coolest are , which is highly unlikely & if it is, there is something wrong. Basking should be in the vicinity of 110F.

I hope that you do not have the enclosures in front of a window in the direct sunlight ...

 

[Germ]

Infrared thermometers are wonderful if you don't have to remove the screen & in doing so move the lighting, then you can not get an accurate measurement with a temp gun. I do have 2 of them & is what I use, but, as mentioned, with my setups it is not necessary to move the lights to get into, to take the temps. ​

​

​

In the instance of enclosures with full, one piece, screen tops, that the lights sit on top of, Digital with a sensor is the way to go.​

​

Many people are not aware of how to use Infrared Thermometers properly & don't take them from a close enough distance to pinpoint where the temp is really wanted to be taken from, depending on the type of thermometer. ​

​

All Infrared thermometers have a Distance to Spot Ratio (D:S), even the ones with the red laser light which only shows the center of the area being measured, not only the temp at the tiny red spot. This is to say, the invisible Infrared sensor of the Temp Gun “shoots out” in a cone shape. The farther away you are from your target object, the larger the spot you will be measuring. The PE1 unit has a Distance to Spot ratio (D:S) of 1:1, meaning at 1 inch away, you are measuring a spot that is 1 inch in diameter. At 1 foot, you are measuring a spot that is 1 foot in diameter. Most will have a it listed somewhere on the device itself or in the packaging that it came with. Both of mine have a ratio of 1:1 as illustrated on the sticker on the back of my PE1 & therefore I must be very close to my basking spot to get an accurate temp and not an average of every thing behind it.​

​

​

​

I have found that most smaller ones on the market do only have a D:S ratio of 1:1. Some of the pricier ones will have a narrower beam or ratio. For example, the PE2 and PE-3 units have MUCH TIGHTER CONES. The PE-3 D:S ratio is 8:1, meaning at 8 inches away, your spot is 1 inch. At 10 feet, you are measuring a spot that is approximately 15" in diameter. ​

​

So if you use an Infrared thermometer, be sure to check what it's Distance to Spot Ratio is & are using it at the right distance to only cover the surface that you wish to measure or you will not have accurate measurements & always point it at the center of the area you wish to take the temp from. If there is anything sticking out between the temp gun & the area to be measured, that will be blocking part of the Cone Beam, the temperature of it will also be calculated into the average, effectively altering the reading, causing it to be inaccurate.​

​

Most actual 'Gun' types, have tighter beams, up to 12 to 13:1 & tighter. But you should always check to be sure.​

​

​

​

Read more: http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/index.php?threads/infrared-thermometers-temp-guns.5874/#ixzz25trx6cpj​

 

[khaleesi]

Now I know what I'm looking for your a genius!! Thank you

No there not in direct sunlight I have 2 walls shaded from the sun that's where I have their viv's but the room does maintain lots of the heat from the sun.

It's good to know that I haven't been ignoring worms etc I do check their poops for anything that looks wrong but so far so good

I empty the viv at feed time so hiding is not a problem and the babies have very simple setups for the time being, a cactus, a hide, a small wooden log, a branch type log to bask and just a couple of large pebbles all sat on kitchen towel. They will eventually have a jungle type corner with lots of plants and 2 different hides with basking spots and pebbles to climb on.

BTW I love K.I.S.S lol it's as if it were made just for me lol