Lethargy/Not Eating

[Leisl Seigler]

Hey guys! I’m a little worried about my baby. He seems to be really lethargic recently and doesn’t eat his meals all the time. Is he okay? Temps are great and humidity is down


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[BeardedHippy]

Hi, yeah Im sure hes fine. While beardies dont usually brumate until a year old, juveniles will still sense the seasonal change and slow down. You might find him going to bed early or sleeping in a lot, loss of appetite goes with it. As long as he isnt losing weight rapidly, its quite normal. If you have some gram scales, make notes of his weight daily so you can tell if there is any sudden weight loss. Just feed him as you normally would, his appetite will pick up eventually. If his weight does drop, a vet visit and fecal check is in order to check for parasites etc.

 

[Leisl Seigler]

Hi, yeah Im sure hes fine. While beardies dont usually brumate until a year old, juveniles will still sense the seasonal change and slow down. You might find him going to bed early or sleeping in a lot, loss of appetite goes with it. As long as he isnt losing weight rapidly, its quite normal. If you have some gram scales, make notes of his weight daily so you can tell if there is any sudden weight loss. Just feed him as you normally would, his appetite will pick up eventually. If his weight does drop, a vet visit and fecal check is in order to check for parasites etc.

That describes his symptoms exactly! Thank you so so much!


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[Hdrydr31]

Yea it's the season for them to slow down, it's always advised to get fecal test 2 times a year Spring and before fall so you know they are clear of parasites that can mimic brumation..It also gives you peace of mind.

 

[Reptilelady86]

OMG thank you so much for clearing this up for me as well. My beardie is still a juvie around 6 months or so and I found it to be a bit early for brumation. He does, however, get up in the mornings and basks, eats, etc but later in the afternoon and out in early evening about 5 pm US time. I am like really? My beardie doesn't show any parasite symptoms (although beardies do hide their symptoms very well) and you are right about getting a fecal test done, never hurts to get it done to have that peace of mind. I am so glad you mentioned this I was literally going insane. My mind was baffled did the whole run check-up list: lights, heat, food, etc. He has a couple of hides in his terrarium but he always seems to knock out in one of them in afternoonish - early evening time.

 

[Hdrydr31]

OMG thank you so much for clearing this up for me as well. My beardie is still a juvie around 6 months or so and I found it to be a bit early for brumation. He does, however, get up in the mornings and basks, eats, etc but later in the afternoon and out in early evening about 5 pm US time. I am like really? My beardie doesn't show any parasite symptoms (although beardies do hide their symptoms very well) and you are right about getting a fecal test done, never hurts to get it done to have that peace of mind. I am so glad you mentioned this I was literally going insane. My mind was baffled did the whole run check-up list: lights, heat, food, etc. He has a couple of hides in his terrarium but he always seems to knock out in one of them in afternoonish - early evening time.

young dragons may just get lazy decreased eating maybe sleep a day or two here and there but they shouldn't fully brumate until over a year as they are still growing... Yea you likely will not even know that he has parasites unless you get a fecal done..

 

[Michael James]

I have similar questions about my little guy. I'm a first time dragon owner, so much of the information I have about them is through forums like this and what the breeder told me when I purchased him. My little guy is about 6 months old, and I've had him for about 2 months now. He has shed his skin (mainly his tail) twice now, but he is roughly the same size and mass when we first got him. He currently sits at 32g; I'm not sure what he was when we first got him, as I never thought to take daily measurements. He doesn't seem to be ill as he explores whenever we have him out of the tank. He loves to climb up the couch and pillows. He has even taken his first leap from the couch to the coffee table (about 6 inches away).

I'm not sure if I should be concerned about his lack of eating though lately. In the past, he would take in about 3-4 crickets, and 1-2 super-worms cut in half per day, plus picking at some fruits and veggies. The past week or so, he hasn't seemed interested in eating as much. I put some crickets in his tank, and he just watches them, even if they climb on his back or legs. He has no interest in his breakfast. He will occasionally still eat 1 or pick at some worms in his bowl, but I was thinking he would be eating more and more as he got familiar with his new home and feeding schedule. I thought he would be a bit bigger and have more mass by now, but his growth seems stunted. I haven't had him to a vet yet, which I guess should be my next step. From this discussion, it seems like this is somewhat normal this time of the year as they can enter brumation. I just hope my guy is ok, and I am not doing any damage to him. His tank is kept between 86-96 during the day and around 80 at night. I change his water regularly as well as give him daily water showers from a spray bottle. I don't usually have time to get him outside for some real sun exposure, but I do have UVA/UVB bulbs. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[BeardedHippy]

It could be your temperatures, if not the above. What are the temps of the cool end of his tank, the hot end and his basking spot? The only way to measure this with any accuracy is with an IR thermometer, those stick on ones dont work. Also, exactly what type of lighting are you using?

 

[Michael James]

For now, I just have the stick on temp/humidity gauge from the pet store. I can invest in an IR thermometer if that will be more accurate and reliable. I have a blue and red 75W exo-terra light. I have two 50W zoo-med UVA/UVB bulbs. I was hesitant to get a stronger bulb because the light mount fixture I have recommends no higher than a 75W bulb. I have been trying to adjust the angle and positioning of the light to try and get it closer to 95-100, but I think the bulbs just aren't strong enough. I have two tanks set up- one for my classroom which is a 15 gallon tank and one for my home which is a 30 gallon. I generally leave him at school M-F, but take him home on the weekends. I hope this isn't causing too much stress for him?

 

[BeardedHippy]

The stick on guages really only measure the temperature of the surface they are stuck to, and as you need three temperature zones in your tank they are not at all accurate. An IR gun is a must , they can be bought cheaply from many places (cheapest online).
Your tanks are very small, he will soon outgrow the 15 gallon if he hasnt already. As he spends most of his time in the smaller tank, I would consider swapping them around until its time to upgrade them. The lights themselves, while I am not familiar with those specific bulbs, do not look good. BDF recomends a high output T5 12% UVB tube that runs along 2/3s of the length of the tank and a spot light for the basking/hot end of your tank. These 2 light sources need to overlap, with the basking spot at 110-115f. The correct mix of light is essential for digestion and D3 production (calcium suppliments with d3 are still needed along with pure calcium and a multivitamin). Without the correct basking temp, he could be struggling to digest his food properly, which may explain why his appetite is low. At 6 months ,my dragons were eating 40-50 medium dubia roaches a day and shedding every 2 weeks, though its fair to say this can be different for every dragon, some just have smaller appetites it seems and some are just picky eaters.
This article gives a good insight into the importance of good UV
http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/An-In-Depth-Look-At-UV-Light-And-Its-Proper-Use-With-Reptiles/
and this one gives a good explaination of temperature zones
http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/threads/general-info-set-up-1st-timers.13863/
Being in the classroom environment probably does cause stress, which can also affect appetite. Giving him plenty of places to hide and covering the back and sides of your tank will reduce this

 

[Hdrydr31]

You have been getting good advice I would add that you don't want to use any colored lighting as they don't allow their pupils to react correctly and in the long term can cause eye damage..
He does need a min of a 40g Breeder tank the 15g is not big enough for proper temp gradients..and the long strip lighting as stated above T5 HO 10.0 Reptisun or an arcadia 12%covering 2/3 of the tank.
I think your issues are: Temp too low for a young dragon, Colored bulbs are quite bad for them, tank too small
32gr at 6 months is on the small side so my impression is the issues are environmental...
He is too young to brumate at this point, they don't typically do this until over a year old.. It is important to have them vetted with a fecal test being done to make sure your not dealing with parasites keeping him from growing.

 

[Michael James]

Why do pet stores and pet supply companies even make colored lights if they are no good? What's the purpose of IR red or UV black lights if they can be potentially harmful to our pets? I understand the motives of making a quick buck or two and keeping up with sales projections, but at the end of the day, if something is harmful and an overall detriment to pets, why continue to make and sell these products? Why don't reputable breeders and and sellers protest or at least get petitions going to stop these products from being made? Why don't herpetologists and sponsors of herp. shows get together and try and get these products off the market?

At the end of the day, I guess it's my fault for being ignorant and not doing enough research. But, when people (first time pet owners and inexperienced pet owners) walk into a pet store and they read on the box of specific lighting that UVB lighting is important for health reasons, and colored lights offer shorter wavelengths that won't interrupt animal sleep cycles, we just assume these products have been tested and are safe to use.

 

[BeardedHippy]

I guess whats ok for one type of reptile is bad for others, those type of lights might be ok for tortoises or frogs etc, just not beardies. Pet stores seem to lack or use outdated information when it comes to bearded dragons, its a common complaint. Some of the more unscrupulous ones are only interested in making money and probably have higher profit margins from selling the crappier bulbs. Its a mystery to me too, why they are so ill informed when all the info they need is out here on the web

 

[Reptilelady86]

I agree, some of the pet stores have no idea and give off really bad advice. I got my beardie from Petsmart, he was the youngest of the batch. He was not long in there to have the damage done. Feel bad for the others though. One associate told me to get calci-sand or whatever as the substrate... so in case he or she eats it, they are getting calcium LOL really!? Of course, whatever they did say, I kept mental notes and then verify with a vet to make sure and of course, they were wrong, all the advice they had given out. Night lights, mini dome, CFL's, and they did mention it was okay to house two beardies together

 

[Hdrydr31]

I agree, some of the pet stores have no idea and give off really bad advice. I got my beardie from Petsmart, he was the youngest of the batch. He was not long in there to have the damage done. Feel bad for the others though. One associate told me to get calci-sand or whatever as the substrate... so in case he or she eats it, they are getting calcium LOL really!? Of course, whatever they did say, I kept mental notes and then verify with a vet to make sure and of course, they were wrong, all the advice they had given out. Night lights, mini dome, CFL's, and they did mention it was okay to house two beardies together

It really is a shame that there are soo many pet store employee's that are not informed of proper husbandry for all the animals that they are in charge of and sell to people.. It should be that's for sure!!! In most cases it really is buyer beware. I made sure when I was going to buy my dragons I did my research and lots of it, there is soo much info out there and I would have to say it's 50/50 if you get good advice. Sad. And sadly for us we loose money on products that can't be used..
Forums like this is what makes the difference!! when you got good knowledgeable enthusiasts wanting to educate..

 

[Reptilelady86]

That's very true! Sad that most people evolve around money $$, it's all about that! Anytime/anywhere to make that money. Even on IG feeds I see people mistreating their animal abusively and it's just terrible. You're absolutely right... When I got my beardie from Petsmart they advised me to do certain things but I double checked on forums, I immediately changed what was wrong and ever since then my beardie is thriving and doing really good. Probably much better than most people who do not join a community forum like this. I also love it when I see comments from newbies who are so stubborn or say things like "I cannot afford a vet visit" or "I cannot pay, but yet I am going to spend $$ on their decor instead". People really need to do a lot of research before owning one and let alone should be aware of the "costs" that may come into play. Bearded dragons are a great pet but as with any other animal they all deserve to be treated right and handled the correct way. Don't house several beardies together especially if they are older and do not be cruel to them. All we can do is advise and hope for the best! *Fingers Crossed* Again, thank you for having a community based like this!

 

[Twinkie13]

My guy has been sleeping for a few days..., right at a year old

 

[Reptilelady86]

My guy has been sleeping for a few days..., right at a year old

Sounds like Brumation. Have you gotten a fecal sample test done to make sure there are no parasites?