Lesbian bearded dragons?

[sgt. amoth]

I have two bearded dragons sold a females, i bought them when they were around 6 months old so, the sexing seems to be easier and the breeder is a professionnal, I've checked many times to verify If they were females, both have only one bulge under the base of the tail but the behavior of one of them worries me.
Since a few day, the dominant one jump on the other's back, bite the back of her head, block her with her/his legs and place her tail in a mating position for a few seconds. I saw that happened like 3 times since yesterday.

I don't really know what to think about that, either I have a male in disguise or I have some kind of Lesbian dominant female or whatever It would be.

Weird situation.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

You have a dominat female. She will take on the role of a male to make the other submit. Possibly getting her to cycle out infertile eggs. I would suggest seperation. If you have an alpha female this is not going to end well for the other dragon.

 

[crypticdragons]

Just backing up toms statement. Alpha females will and often do take on male roles when housed with another female (or even during mating season if with a non-dominant male lol). Eventually the other female is going to fight back so to speak. And when this happens one of them will end up badly hurt. In a case like this its best to seperate asap.

 

[ladyknite]

I'll ditto that

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Wohooooo backed up and dittoed. ;D

 

[zebraflavencs]

*grins*
Janie

 

[Twobeardieguy]

Over sees and nods! 8)

 

[digidragon9129]

wows. this was tottaly weird! I didn't know female beardies could also be dominant. I have a male, and he's submissive, i don't think he's gay... or might he?? ???

 

[lexi]

wows. this was tottaly weird! I didn't know female beardies could also be dominant. I have a male, and he's submissive, i don't think he's gay... or might he?? ???

It has nothing to do with "gay" or "straight"... those are terms for human sexual preference, and have nothing to do with the situation you are facing. Either sex (of any animal) can be dominant or submissive. This is why it is not recommended that dragons be housed together (of any sex) because there is always the potential for fighting and injuries.

 

[digidragon9129]

so true ;D though i was just being sarcastic, but there was this case i heard about a gay cat back in the 70s.

 

[renich]

Just agreeing with everyone. You really should separate them. Beardies are not social creatures and fatal endings may occur for the non dominant one. If housing is an issue, you can tape a piece of cardboard to separate the tank. Make sure the temps are right on both sides and each receive the proper UV.

Here's a link to an article discussing what could happen when multiple beardies are housed together:

Housing Multiple Bearded Dragons

 

[sgt. amoth]

for unknown reasons, everything seems to be back to normal, no more "lesbian" mating stuff, I hope It will stay that way. The owner of the shop where I bought them told me that sometimes, due to the temperature parameters during the incubation (and a lot of technical stuff I forgot) some bearded dragons hatch as females with some kind of male mind, he even had the experience of a citrus female mating males.

 

[lexi]

for unknown reasons, everything seems to be back to normal, no more "lesbian" mating stuff, I hope It will stay that way. The owner of the shop where I bought them told me that sometimes, due to the temperature parameters during the incubation (and a lot of technical stuff I forgot) some bearded dragons hatch as females with some kind of male mind, he even had the experience of a citrus female mating males.

That has got to be the oddest thing I have ever heard. I don't even know how anyone would know what kind of 'mind' a dragon has.

For the reasons already stated (above and on multiple bearded dragon care sheets and websites) they should be separated, regardless of the sex or whether or not you are still seeing aggression. You cannot be there 24/7 and you run the risk of the dominant dragon injuring or killing the other one.

I would also question whatever this breeder/pet store tells you, since that explanation they gave for this relatively common behavior is absolutely absurd.

 

[crypticdragons]

for unknown reasons, everything seems to be back to normal, no more "lesbian" mating stuff, I hope It will stay that way. The owner of the shop where I bought them told me that sometimes, due to the temperature parameters during the incubation (and a lot of technical stuff I forgot) some bearded dragons hatch as females with some kind of male mind, he even had the experience of a citrus female mating males.

That has got to be the oddest thing I have ever heard. I don't even know how anyone would know what kind of 'mind' a dragon has.

For the reasons already stated (above and on multiple bearded dragon care sheets and websites) they should be separated, regardless of the sex or whether or not you are still seeing aggression. You cannot be there 24/7 and you run the risk of the dominant dragon injuring or killing the other one.

I would also question whatever this breeder/pet store tells you, since that explanation they gave for this relatively common behavior is absolutely absurd.

I suggest seperating them as well but i have to disagree on this statement

Some females are predisposed from birth to be more alpha or male in their nature. Weather this is due to the incubation process in itself or not is not known to me but it is a pheasable possibility, it could also come down to genetics, and environment. But the pet store employee/breeder saying it could have been caused from incubation temps is just as likely as any other reason as i see it.

 

[lexi]

for unknown reasons, everything seems to be back to normal, no more "lesbian" mating stuff, I hope It will stay that way. The owner of the shop where I bought them told me that sometimes, due to the temperature parameters during the incubation (and a lot of technical stuff I forgot) some bearded dragons hatch as females with some kind of male mind, he even had the experience of a citrus female mating males.

That has got to be the oddest thing I have ever heard. I don't even know how anyone would know what kind of 'mind' a dragon has.

For the reasons already stated (above and on multiple bearded dragon care sheets and websites) they should be separated, regardless of the sex or whether or not you are still seeing aggression. You cannot be there 24/7 and you run the risk of the dominant dragon injuring or killing the other one.

I would also question whatever this breeder/pet store tells you, since that explanation they gave for this relatively common behavior is absolutely absurd.

I suggest seperating them as well but i have to disagree on this statement

Some females are predisposed from birth to be more alpha or male in their nature. Weather this is due to the incubation process in itself or not is not known to me but it is a pheasable possibility, it could also come down to genetics, and environment. But the pet store employee/breeder saying it could have been caused from incubation temps is just as likely as any other reason as i see it.

This is no different than humans. Some people will be predisposed to be more dominant or submissive. I have found nothing at all to suggest that, in bearded dragons, this has anything to do with incubation temperatures, and for someone to suggest that they know so without any evidence sounds like they are making something up just to have something to say. This is why I caution the original poster on accepting everything they have to say as absolute fact. I caution anyone doing that, without doing their own research.

Of course there are going to be females that are more dominant than others. No different than humans. That isn't the part I disagree with. I have a lot of issues with some of the statements made in this post, regarding 'gay' or 'lesbian' bearded dragons and the like. It's absurd. I'm sorry, but it's absurd... and for a breeder or pet store employee to pretend to know what kind of 'mind' a dragon has is utterly ridiculous. It also makes no difference what the reason is for the aggression. If there is aggression, they should be separated. I just really fail to see any logical reason to attach terms meant to describe human sexual preference or psychoanalysis of the animal's mindset. Aggression is aggression... dominance is dominance. It really doesn't matter what the reasoning is, and I don't see anything wrong with suggesting that the original poster exercise common sense when speaking with this breeder/pet store when they are saying something that is not substantiated by any research that I'm aware of. It seems like they are making up a story when they don't have an answer, and clearly, they know little about bearded dragons if they have advised housing them together in the first place. That's all I'm saying.

 

[sgt. amoth]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, If I use inapropriate Words, Is simply because I'm not as easy as you are with English (which is not my mother tongue) and as a consequence I can't really explain things the way I really would like. The word lesbian or gay in my first post was plain wrong and I knew that, there was like some kind of 'voluntary' ignorance and you could replace mind by behaviour which I admit, is more suited.

About Agression, my main care was that weird "mating" situation between two females which was explained to me as a result coming from one of the female acting typically like an "Alpha female" (someone talked about that too in the beginning of this topic) this is the only kind of physical Agression i've observed from them, no fighting, no random biting, nothing like that. Then they explained to me that alpha females are often a result of massive breeding and the heat triggering factor during incubation sometimes overused by some breeders (they are NOT the breeders) causes the loss of many sex-determinated characteristics and this phenomenon Is even worse with some geckos, it's something pretty new, there is a serious, recent and official study about heat triggering with bearded dragons led by Alexander E. Quinn of the Institute for Applied Ecology at the University of Canberra, I'm about to get a pdf let me know If you are interested.

Anyway, If this problem persists I'm simply going to have to unwillingly sell one, unless there is cheap diy housing solutions, I simply can't afford another vivarium for the moment.

 

[ladyknite]

for unknown reasons, everything seems to be back to normal, no more "lesbian" mating stuff, I hope It will stay that way. The owner of the shop where I bought them told me that sometimes, due to the temperature parameters during the incubation (and a lot of technical stuff I forgot) some bearded dragons hatch as females with some kind of male mind, he even had the experience of a citrus female mating males.

I'm certianly glad things have calmed down, but please don't expect them to stay that way.
More dominant females will progressively become more aggressive if they feel their heat, space, food is threatened by another. This has nothing to do with incubation temperatures or male/female sexual makeup. These arent communal animals in the wild, and eat their own young.

I agree with Renee's recommendation for temporary precautionary seperation. That will be your best best.

 

[renich]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, If I use inapropriate Words, Is simply because I'm not as easy as you are with English (which is not my mother tongue) and as a consequence I can't really explain things the way I really would like. The word lesbian or gay in my first post was plain wrong and I knew that, there was like some kind of 'voluntary' ignorance and you could replace mind by behaviour which I admit, is more suited.

This is a very good point. I would like to comment further on this. We have members from all over the globe. Please keep this in mind when responding to a post. I know at times words escape me. And just as email, there is room for misinterpretation. We pride ourselves here with having a member base that is open minded and willing to accept others points of view, whether we agree or not.

I think you explained things fine and hope you received the advice you sought and will continue to reach out to us for advice. We have a very seasoned community in bearded dragon care.

 

[Boogiesmom]

Sgt Amoth, See if you can find a used fish tank. I am on a fixed income and I know it can be expensive. It took me months to decide to build a VIV. It is much cheaper than buying one. I am not sure of the cost where you are at. Check your local paper, eBay, or a pet store (thats were I originally got one of mine). I would have it ready just in case thing don't work out.

Hopefully you will be able to post some pictures soon. (unless I missed them already LOL)

 

[sgt. amoth]

I think i'll give a try to a homemade osb vivarium with a sliding door, that kind of wood seems to be dirt cheap and do not require big skills to build like a glass terrarium like I currently have