Gut-loading Spaghetti Squash: Do I need to Calcium Dust?

[Bushmaster11B]

I'm gut-loading my roaches with Spaghetti Squash and the Ca is 2:1. Do I need to still dust my Dubia Roaches? I also feed them left over Collard Greens and a Vitamin Gut-load (forgot the name but it is green).

 

[Germ]

Yes, the Ca: P ratio is correct for the Calcium that it does contain, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it actually contains a lot of calcium, may just be quite low in Phosphorus. All feeders should be dusted with calcium, regardless of gutload.

Here is an article providing a good explanation to give an understanding on the Calcium to Phosphorous & Fat to Protien ratio ...
The main points to look out for are the fat content and the Ca: P ratio.

Ca: P Ratio and Reptiles
Many have heard about the Ca: P ratio but not many understand what it means to your reptiles. The Ca: P ratio is simply the ratio of Calcium compared to Phosphorus and so a Ca: P ratio of 1 (one or 1:1) would mean that Calcium & Phosphorus are found in equal quantities, a Ca: P ratio of 0.5 (half or 0.5:1) means that there is half the amount of Calcium than there is Phosphorus. An ideal Ca: P ratio would be around 2 (two or 2:1) as this will allow calcium to be easily absorbed.

So why is this important? It has to do with the way Calcium is absorbed by your reptile's intestine. For any calcium to be absorbed, there needs to be at least equal quantities of Calcium and Phosphorus in their food. If the Phosphorus is much higher, then not only will it prevent calcium being absorbed, but may even leach calcium that is already present in your reptile's body. This can lead to serious problems such as MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease). When Calcium and Phosphorus are dissolved in equal quantities, it forms an insoluble salt (Calcium Phosphate) which is very difficult to absorb by your reptile's intestine. If there is a large amount of phosphorus compared to the calcium, then all the calcium will be bound by the phosphorus and none will be available for your reptile. If there is a large excess of calcium, then no phosphorus can be absorbed, which is also a vital mineral but not needed in as large a quantity as calcium. Ideally the Ca/P ratio for most vertebrates is around 2 (also written as 2:1).

Fat vs Protein
Another thing to look out for is the amount of fat compared to protein. Fat contains twice as many calories as protein, but doesn't provide any of the nutritional benefits that are gained from proteins from their amino acids which are essential for the health of any living creature. The calories from fat are often called "empty calories" in dietary terminology. Most insectivorous reptiles will receive greater benefit from a high protein/low fat diet.

Source - http://www.leedspetshops.co.uk

Read more: http://us.gnbdragons.com/care-sheet

 

[Bushmaster11B]

OK, I didn't stop dusting, I was just looking at my chart and realized how wonderful Spaghetti Squash was and my Dubias LOVE THEM! I won't stop dusting.... I promise.

 

[Germ]

I was just looking at my chart and realized how wonderful Spaghetti Squash was and my Dubias LOVE THEM!

Wonderful? --- I would never use Spaghetti Squash as a gutload, it would be like feeding an empty shell. Gutload should be a high protein, low fat diet. Greens & veggies are mostly water, very little nutrition & are mainly for hydration, with the live prey being the nutritional source. That chart bases its findings mostly on the Ca: P ratio, does not state how much Calcium it actually contains, which is fine, considering most greens have very little nutritional value anyway. Being that it is based on the Ca: P ratio, an item may have almost nil phosphorus & have twice almost nil Calcium (that's not much Calcium), but still have a 2:1 ratio. This is why all feeders should be dusted. Hope you can understand this, it is explained quite well in the above quote.

Greens & veggies work well to provide feeders with hydration, but are a very poor gutload. Take the chart & look at your Spaghetti Squash for example. It is listed as having equal amounts of Protein vs Fat, yes, but very little of both. Just a touch better than one half of 1% Protein & just a touch better than one half of 1% Fat. Very little sugar for energy 2.2%. A 'Terrible' gutload in my opinion.

We really have to look at more than just the Ca: P ratio.

SpSq has a very decent Ca: P ratio for 'itself' to make the processing & absorption of the Calcium it contains (Whatever that may be) more efficient, if fed by itself, nothing else, does not make up for what the other foods & feeders lack. The point of supplementing with Calcium is to make up for the poor ratio that most of the feeders that we use have, along with the other foods we feed with poorer Ca: P ratios.

 

[Bushmaster11B]

OK, I understand now. Yeah I ran out of my gutload "Bites" and have to wait until next week to get them. I have Fluker's cricket gut load and they don't seem to feed off that too much. What would you suggest to increase protein for the feeders?

 

[sean8172]

Dry cat food. I blend it into a fine dust. Very high in protein. Most grain-based cereals are as well (like shredded wheat, or even corn flakes). Ground up dog food, too. Pretty much anything dry, and high in protein.

Edit: Just saw the age of this thread. I would image you've gotten every answer you wanted already. Sorry for my late participation.

 

[gilliesexotics]

Hi Sean, Cat food has preformed vitamins along with animal protein. This is not a good thing long term for lizards with a primarily, vegetation, insect diet. Yes, it is ok for them to have animal protein from time to time but naturally these animals do not need to be subjected to it at every feeding.

 

[sean8172]

Hi Sean, Cat food has preformed vitamins along with animal protein. This is not a good thing long term for lizards with a primarily, vegetation, insect diet. Yes, it is ok for them to have animal protein from time to time but naturally these animals do not need to be subjected to it at every feeding.

I would never feed cat food to my BDs. I was suggesting using cat food as a possible gut load for feeders. Sorry that I didn't clarify that in my response. I will blend cat (or dog) food into my home made roach chow. Thank you for correcting me though.

 

[gilliesexotics]

Hi Sean, no worries. My response was directed at the use of cat food in a gut load. Roaches and crickets are able to retain preformed vitamins much loonger than what you would ever expect and this carries on to your animal.