Does my beardie love me ?

[ReptileBabe]

I clipped his nails yesterday and he started to move towards me , at first i thought he was going to flare his beard at me but instead he licked my hand. I thought it was so sweet. And then when i was trying to put him back in his tank he gripped onto my wrist and didnt let go , is this just common behavior or is it feelings?

 

[Germ]

Well here is my opinion, along with a Scientific fact. First off, if it fills an emotional need to believe that they do feel 'Love', cool. But to simply confuse familiarity, routine, instinct of territoriality, knowing the hand that feeds you, with 'Love' is just wrong. The fact that many of us feel the need to humanize these creatures & read things into them because it makes us feel better is ok, but let's not get carried away.

It is a proven scientific fact that BDs, and this is characteristic of most reptiles, have a severely underdeveloped portion of the brain (pretty much to the point of non-existence.). If my memory serves me right, called the Hypothalamus or limbic system, which governs among other things, emotion & are therefore physically incapable of feeling such an emotion as 'Love'.

If you want to believe that they can and do feel 'Love' & it makes you feel better, once again, great

, but keep in the back of your mind, it's all in your head, not theirs.

A whole lengthy thread on the subject ...

Do YOU think Beardies Can Love You?

 

[milo0]

Well, I'd like to think my beardie "loves" me, or at least likes me. I don't think they can really form tight bonds, as in if I were to give mine beardie away to a friend, he would probably go on with his life as normal. That being said, mine also gets freaked out by certain people but finds comfort with me, and when I take him out, he hates it if he's not either under my chin or shoulder. I can put him on my knee and he'll make his way up to just chill on my shoulder where it's warm. It's also probably a sense of security for him too and not necessarily "wanting to cuddle and be close to me".

Rather than "love us", I believe they learn to tolerate/like us, or else they would be hissing and biting us constantly. But what we think is love is actually just them doing what they do.

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

I'll throw my 43 cents worth here in the ring on this subject;-) It is fact as Germ has already pointed out that these dragons as well as most other reptile species have very primitive brains compared to say humans. That underdeveloped hypothalamus as far as I understand pretty much limits their "emotions" to basically three which are fear, aggression and pleasure and their responses and actions to their environment and what happens in it are based on one or a combination of those three "emotions".
They do have memory and just like humans and other creatures can remember and associate. For instance if previously they have experienced something that has brought them fear or pleasure then when that same experience begins to occur again they remember and respond based on that previous experience. For example if you where to snatch your dragon up quickly which would scare him then chances are that the next time you reach for him he will try and squirm away from you or depending on how fearful he was may even become aggressive. By the same token if he is housed in proper enclosure and fed good food and when handled it is done in a gentle way in which those experiences are pleasure based then he will associate everything dealing with that experience as something pleasurable and safe and something he doesn't need to "flee or fight".
Since they do associate that explains them "recognizing" you and responding to you.
I believe that bearded dragons in particular lend themselves to misinterpretation more than most reptiles simply due to their generally "docile" nature in captivity. And I agree with Germ in that I also believe that humans read much more into their dragons responses than is actually there, leaning toward placing human traits on them which they simply do not have. I believe most times this is because with our complex and advanced brains it is hard or for some impossible to imagine seeing and interpreting the world primitively like our dragon companions do. And so it makes it easier and more comfortable for us to compute our inter-reactions with them in terms of our own emotions and how we respond and react to our world.
The big problem I see in this misinterpreting them is that it opens the door wide to us, while with all intentions of taking great care of them and providing them with a wonderful life, totally missing the boat and instead causing the creature unnecessary and constant stress and agitation and instead of a wonderful life giving them a world where they are constantly on guard.
The term Love in itself is also a subjective and complex concept, perhaps one of the most complex emotions in the world. There are many creatures in the world that do show characteristics and actions that we as humans associate with the concept of love but in bearded dragons none of these are truly known to exist.
There is no nurturing or protection of the young after they are born by the parents, the only time they come together in the wild is during mating time, mates do not stay together after mating, they are territorial creatures that live solitary lives based on dominance. Those are facts.
Does that mean that we can't love and adore them? Absolutely we can and I believe we all do or else we would not go to the expenses in time and effort that we do to take proper care of them and provide them with the best! Do they fully understand what we do or the lengths we go for them? In other words the love we have for them? I don't think they do. But I think they know that what we are doing when we do things right brings them pleasure, makes them feel good and makes their world a safe place to be.
Love in my eyes does not necessarily have to be reciprocated on equal levels or even at all to be a good thing and the fact that these dragons don't have the mental capability to truly reciprocate the love we have for them doesn't matter in the least. Perhaps the greatest love we can give them is to try our best to understand them on their level and except them as they are instead of placing human emotions on them. I believe that to be what they call unconditional love which once mastered makes use better caretakers for them.
One last thing that I will pose on the subject of this thread should you still wonder about the "emotional" attachment your dragon has to you or "does my dragon love me?" would be a simple test. On a warm sunny summer day take your dragon outside and turn him loose. I dare say that he/she given the opportunity will wander off quite readily and when evening falls will not be scratching at your door to get back to you. Please DO NOT be foolhardy and actually do that because they will be gone. Instead you do the "loving" and accept your dragon as your dragon. In doing so you will both share the pleasure of your life and experiences together, you on your level, them on their level but pleasure none-the-less

Enjoy!

 

[Pat B]

Interesting thread....I know my Spike doesn't like me but he is stuck with me!!

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

Interesting thread....I know my Spike doesn't like me but he is stuck with me!!

Spike is just a dominate and strong willed dragon, Pat and as such feels the need to "keep you in your place"....My guess is that as he ages and matures he will feel less inclined to be "The Big Bad Dragon".
Come to think of it...when I was a younger man my desire and need to constantly assert my dominance was much greater too...however older now and hopefully wiser for it I have fine-tuned my instincts a bit and can better choose my battles as well as better recognize when battle is even called for. I like to see it as one trait that all creatures no matter the species share in common
Hopefully when Spike wakes up after his big snooze and after his re-acquaintance with you and the excellent care you give him he will reveal himself a much more mature and mellow dragon! Either-way though I am sure Stinker Dragon or Chill Dragon that Spike has someone taking care of him and accepting him just as he is;-)

Enjoy!

 

[khaleesi]

My babies don't tent to have any time for any human except for us they will let others pet them for a few seconds but always return to mummy aka me just because of familiarization I suspect but that being said I have noticed they have learned their own names and if the mood takes them they come when called most of the time they just lie their on the sofa or pillow or wherever they've got comfy and make me go to them. I also noticed my babies have become some what familiar with commands too, my boy Charlie got overly comfortable pooping into his food bowl so after a week of hovering at his viv and shifting him slightly when it looked like he was going to poop while talking to him in a stern voice telling him NO Charlie not in your food baby boy I can now say it with the door shut and he moves almost instantly. My girl on the other hand is very affectionate she will almost always want to be out and on me while I potter about I have no doubt this is not love this is her just being nosy and wanting to be included. It has been said lots in this thread that they are not capable of feeling love no matter the case but my opinion is that although this is true in almost every case I do wonder why they come to me and only me when they feel a bit ill or down or whatever they feel at that time for comfort and a cuddle. All my babies know me as mum they know my voice they know our routine and they most certainly know I am the hand that feeds them bathes them and I am the one who kisses their cranky little back sides to make them happy again, I also wonder how they know what I'm asking them if they feel and understand no emotion...If I ask for a nibbler kiss my girl will always rub her nose to mine and my boy I ask for a Charlie pop kiss and he always licks me this cannot simply be coincidence it happens every time they all lick me on the hand when they are hunting for food because they know mama feeds them so this is primitive to them my hands mean food when their hungry. So can love be felt by our dragons? In my opinion yes and not because I've fooled myself into thinking it but by the actions of our beloved dragons. They treat you how you treat them. Show them the way to love and they will learn to love faster than you think.

 

[Noella]

Whenever I've got Allie around me, she's always cuddling under my chin or neck. She'll stare at me for a long time with this large grin on her face. (My avatar pic has one of her famous grins and she's looking exactly at me when I took her picture.) She'll 'kiss' or taste me. People who've seen Allie says that she's formed a special bond with me. This special bond is probably because she senses I'm real unique, her Mommy, her protector, the hand that feeds her, and I showed her what a forever home is because before me, who knows how many homes she's had in the past. I think she had several owners before. Allie showed this special bond to me the first day I rescued her. Since then, her bonding to me was actually pretty quick.

I do like to believe they have emotions. Love? Well, that's a yes to me. I believe they can learn how to love. I had Pervasive Developmental Disorder and High Functioning Autism. I had to learn how to show emotions and other things not taught in school. It was hard for me, but I came a long way from being awkward and shy to talking to people. (I was lucky to have two parents who treated me like my brother. I was brought up the same way as him, but the 'Autism-Part peeks through some of the time and it's much worse when I don't eat.)

Allie's smart in her own way and she taught me some of her body language such as the butt wiggle before pooping, the tasting of air before breakfast, the curious little looking in the refrigerator for something to eat-(She's done this several times and I was going to give her some watermelon today because she wanted it. It went bad after a day of being wrapped up in a plastic wrapped container that I hadn't opened! So she and I didn't get any.), the about-face to where her home is. (Believe me, she'll turn around in my hands to go to her home.) She'll run to the window and sit there, she'll come to me if she's ready to go back to her home. (Home=Tank). She knows what toys are hers! I've got a few toys lying around my room and on my bed. Mostly stuffed animals. She refuses to go to the bathroom on me and goes in her home or bath bin. She knows her carrying case and goes into it to go out for a ride. (She's jumped off me and lands in her carrying case on her own.) I wouldn't trust her to be outside by herself because she does run and got angry when I reached under the car to get her. She knows when she gets into trouble. Half isn't body language, it's actually observing her for curious beardie behavior that could get her into a lot of trouble.

 

[RyanHuff20]

How long can I take for a beardie to develop a familiarization of you to the point he will sit with me when I take him out. He doesn't really mind being around me but he doesn't enjoy sitting on my hand or shoulder. He is only a month but it feels like forever D:

 

[Noella]

Just keep doing what you're doing now. He'll get used to you and sit on your shoulder when he reaches adult. Mine will sit for a little bit before running off to see something interesting. Mine's a year and a half.

 

[RyanHuff20]

Very nice, I'm just too anxious! Thank you!

 

[LittleMerlin]

Hehe beardies are such fun! Just handling them a little bit each day helps! In my mind I'd like to think they know emotions like love, but I'm an avid believer that any creature/human knows love, just doesn't always know how to show it. I guess that's what I get for being a lover, not a fighter, lol. I've learned some signs of Jethro's body language, I liked the previous statement of the but wiggle for bathroom. That's about the description of it for Jethro. When he was younger, if I had him out on my lap, he'd get on my laptop if I had it out, and decided cause it was warm, that was his bathroom for the moment, or my pants... whichever he felt was a good area. Now he just goes in his tank. He used to go in his food bowl which drove me nuts, and sometimes his water dish, but now he avoids those areas. He likes to get out and explore, so long as I keep the cat away. He doesn't care about the cat, but I do 'cause she's not nice towards most people, let alone creatures like Jethro. He seems to enjoy being with Mom and me because we don't mind handling him. I guess if he were to sense stress in someone like my dad who isn't fond of reptiles (not afraid, just doesn't like being around them too much), then they will "stress/fear" the person that's refusing their attention. Jethro definitely likes being the star though, it's like he thinks he's Batman and just wanders about the house when he's out, or outside (keep a very close eye on him).