Considering a dragon.... Questions.

[magpie]

Hey there,

We had a new friend over the other night and she said she has a bearded dragon that she got for her son a while back but she feels bad because he doesn’t get as much attention as he should.

I’ve always really been into lizards (but have never owned one) so I expressed some non-committing interest. I think there’s a potential she might give him and her setup to me if I was really into it. I'm just starting to research to see if this is something I actually want to do. The more research I do, the more tempted I get.

I don't know anything about this guy really. Don't know age, sex, what size enclosure, quality of lights, etc. I do know he gets insects (not sure about veg) and has a heat light and UVB but that's it. I didn't know the questions to ask when I found out she had it so didn't ask about veggies. I am fairly sure it is an adult (>1 year? what is an adult?) but I don't know how old. I asked her some questions via text this morning, and we are going to their house for a dinner on the 16th so I will let you know what I find out.

I was looking at videos and saw something about using bioactive substrate. This really appeals to me, as I'm a freshwater aquarium nerd and always do them with live plants - I love the natural / "realistic" look, the enrichment for the fish, and the way the systems eventually are lower maintenance becasue they attain a kind of balance. HOWEVER - this seems like a very polarizing topic. What is the consensus, or are there good resources on this? As a first-time-reptile-owner I'm worried that might be taking on too much right away. (I have found great info on bioactive setups on this forum - a nice, long detailed post.)

I think I am pretty good on feeding. Sounds like I should get a dubia roach colony going. Little grossed out by roaches but these are supposedly not bad. (Convince me).

My other question that I can't seem to find a great answer to is how long can you keep your dragon out of their enclosure? How do you know when they're cold? I will buy a temp probe thing if the owner doesn't have one... do you use that or can you tell by behavior? My ideal situation would be handling the lizard a lot when I am home but I don't want them to get too cold. Also, same questions when you bring them outside in the summer.

For winter, we keep the house at 62 at night. Sounds like I'll need a ceramic heater? At what point should I check the temperature to see if I need it or not? The enclosure might be warmer than the ambient temp, I've read.

That's all I have right this second but I'll have more questions, I promise.

I am a researcher and like to do pets right. I currently have 2 dogs - a Doberman (who is a therapy dog) and a Frenchie/Chihuahua mix, and the fish, as mentioned.

Sounds like these guys are interactive, fairly hardy if treated right, and like to be held for the most part, so can be a good first reptile pet?

Also, what should I look for when I meet the guy? What questions should I ask? I feel like if I'm into owning one I should get this one as he's not getting the attention he needs. I am sure everything was done with good intentions but what if they got petsmart info and haven't been doing proper care? Will that bite me in the butt later with vet bills etc?

Thanks in advance for the help! (And thanks for reading my super long post.)

 

[Canicke]

hi. wow. ok - adult : over 1 year. bioactive is great - ya might want to transition into that. he can eat a variety of insects - super worms, calci worms, crickets, dubias (its just a bug - and sooo much better than crickets - which are stinky and noisy) in addition to an assortment of greens and veggies. out of enclosure ? - it varies. their viv is their home. if they get cold - you can feel it. some people only have them out for a short time others for several hours. I have seen a couple set ups where the owners have heat lamps set up in a corner of the room for their kids to go to if they want. cool. summer - what are your outside temps? I lost my first boy to overheating - I have been super cautious since then. 62 at night is acceptable for some folks, a little cool for others. there is a range of 50 - 65. (50 is cool - I wouldn't go that low) what to look for - ask about what he has been eating, how old is he, is he skinny? fat? look at his eyes - should be clear, energy level? a 1 year old should have lots of energy. look for deformed limbs (if he has not been fed properly, his bones may not have developed correctly) more questions? ask away! (this is a journey - we all learn every day)

 

[magpie]

Thank you! She hasn't responded to me yet with initial questions but I'll let you know.

I live in Bend, OR which is a high desert environment. Temps don't often get much over 90, and if they do the shade is notably cooler because it's dry, not humid. Evenings cool off notably.

I think spending time with him and learning normal behaviors will be important.
How do you know if a beardie is overheating?
Do you ever use the infared thermometers to see how warm the dragon is itself or is that not accurate? Just for areas in a tank?

 

[Hdrydr31]

They are great critters and I now have 3!! lol
if you haven't already you can take a look at the link below several of our comments as we have put together a ton of info that will help you out.. we are all here to help..

 

[magpie]

I have been looking at those - lots of great info, thanks.

 

[magpie]

Ok so substrate....

People are so polarized about it, it seems. Some people say anything outside of reptile carpet, tile, etc are going to cause problems, infections, impaction, etc.

Yet here people seem accepting of it. I have another aquarium online friend who says he’s kept many beardies in a mix of sand and cocoa husks and more recently organic topsoil and sphagnum mixed in. He feeds in a dish and has had zero issues and the beardies can dig if they want.

Also, I went to the local (good reputation) reptile store today. It looks like their beardies are kept in some kind of similar dry soil/husk mix. (Didn’t have time to ask questions as it was busy.)

So.... thoughts on that? I wouldn’t change anything right away as I’d want the dragon to get comfortable first, but am just thinking for future.

 

[PatsyB]

I don't recommend going bio until you have more experience with them. The other thing about bio is if a bearded dragon gets parasites, you are going to have to tear down your bio tank and clean it to throughly rid them of the parasites.

Substrate is a personal preference. Any loose substrate is going to be a risk of impaction from eating it (they taste everything) or bacterial infection from not being able to throughly clean out poop. Eye infections and respiratory infections can also happen, especially with a finer substrate. Most people use some sort of ceramic or slate tile. The benefit with that is that it's somewhat easy to clean and it helps file down their nails. Non adhesive shelf liner and repticarpet can also be used. The problem with Repticarpet is that their nails can get stuck in it. Excavator clay is becoming popular, it's more natural looking and mimics the land where they come from.

 

[baldegale14]

substrate wise ive had no issues with mine eating it and i use a organic soil/play sand mix. what PatsyB said about the poop though isn’t necessarily true in a bioactive, because of the isopods/springtails they devour poop almost instantly (at least they start to) and they even eat old greens. most people with bios put a semi thick top layer of leaf litter so impaction doesnt become that big of a concern, and ive heard from multiple people that if the beardie is healthy and your basking temps are high enough (110°-120°) theyll be able to digest small bits of substrate no problem (not saying its something to encourage though) plus, if youre that worried feed your insects outside of the cage, which is what i do because i still dont have everything fully bioactive yet, just the substrate.


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[magpie]

I don't recommend going bio until you have more experience with them.

Excavator clay is becoming popular, it's more natural looking and mimics the land where they come from.

substrate wise ive had no issues with mine eating it and i use a organic soil/play sand mix. what PatsyB said about the poop though isn’t necessarily true in a bioactive, because of the isopods/springtails they devour poop almost instantly (at least they start to) and they even eat old greens. most people with bios put a semi thick top layer of leaf litter so impaction doesnt become that big of a concern, and ive heard from multiple people that if the beardie is healthy and your basking temps are high enough (110°-120°) theyll be able to digest small bits of substrate no problem (not saying its something to encourage though) plus, if youre that worried feed your insects outside of the cage, which is what i do because i still dont have everything fully bioactive yet, just the substrate.

Thank you for the input. I think I've decided to wait and see what he is on now, how he looks, see what size viv he's in, etc. and then get used to him/her and their natural behaviors and disposition. In the meantime I can continue to research and see what might be best for me and this beardie long term. I will likely have to upgrade enclosures...? We'll see. (Really hoping this new friend has been hitting the important things, but just busy and now with disinterested kiddos.)

I've heard very similar things to what you've said, baldegale, but also MANY cautionary tales.
@baldegale14 - what ratio do you mix yours at?
@PatsyB - thank you for mentioning the excavator clay! I have been looking at lots of vivs on pinterest, forums, etc. and I think some of the ones I really like are made of that. I had no idea what they were. Thanks! If I didn't do that I'd probably do some more naturalistic looking tile. It's just my aesthetic as I mentioned - the naturalistic look gets me everytime. It doesn't have to be an accurate biotope with my fish, even. Just a loose interpretation.


BTW, my friend is out of town and will answer my questions tomorrow! I'll keep you updated!

 

[baldegale14]

Thank you for the input. I think I've decided to wait and see what he is on now, how he looks, see what size viv he's in, etc. and then get used to him/her and their natural behaviors and disposition. In the meantime I can continue to research and see what might be best for me and this beardie long term. I will likely have to upgrade enclosures...? We'll see. (Really hoping this new friend has been hitting the important things, but just busy and now with disinterested kiddos.)

I've heard very similar things to what you've said, baldegale, but also MANY cautionary tales.
@baldegale14 - what ratio do you mix yours at?
@PatsyB - thank you for mentioning the excavator clay! I have been looking at lots of vivs on pinterest, forums, etc. and I think some of the ones I really like are made of that. I had no idea what they were. Thanks! If I didn't do that I'd probably do some more naturalistic looking tile. It's just my aesthetic as I mentioned - the naturalistic look gets me everytime. It doesn't have to be an accurate biotope with my fish, even. Just a loose interpretation.


BTW, my friend is out of town and will answer my questions tomorrow! I'll keep you updated!

i mix mine at 75% organic soil and 25% play sand. most people recommend 50/50 but thats just what i found worked for me, and its cheap to replace. a 40lb bag of organic soil is $9 and a 50lb bag of play sand is $4 and that can fill a 4ftx2ftx3in space 2 times easy


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[magpie]

And it doesn't increase the humidity in your enclosure at that ratio? Have you ever added coconut husks, sphagnum moss, etc?

Thanks!!

 

[baldegale14]

And it doesn't increase the humidity in your enclosure at that ratio? Have you ever added coconut husks, sphagnum moss, etc?

Thanks!!

my enclosure is high humidity, but my beardie has been used to it since he came from the breeder. but, its also a completely closed enclosure, if you put it in a 40gal with a screen top humidity shouldnt be a problem or you can do what someone on here does (im sorry i cant remember your name right now so sorry for no credit) and put a small dehumidifier next to the tank. no i have not tried coconut husk although i do have some but id almost do a bottom layer of that because thats what would retain the water and you dont want all the humidity up top. ive heard of people doing a 33/33/33 mixture of organic soil, play sand, and coconut chips.


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[baldegale14]

if you really wanna dish out some money you can use this: https://www.thebiodude.com/collecti.../products/bearded-dragon-lizard-bioactive-kit youd still need wood, isopods, spring tails, and plants. all of which he also sells on his website


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[baldegale14]

sorry i keep kinda spamming this thread, but heres a good link that talks about bio stuff aswell http://bdogroup.org/gencare/bioact/bioact.pdf


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[PatsyB]

I am a member of a bioactive group on FB. When I was setting up my crested gecko bio and WTF bio, I saw a discussion that mentioned about the beardies and parasites.

 

[magpie]

sorry i keep kinda spamming this thread, but heres a good link that talks about bio stuff aswell http://bdogroup.org/gencare/bioact/bioact.pdf

Please, spam away. I can't get enough info at this point.

I am a member of a bioactive group on FB. When I was setting up my crested gecko bio and WTF bio, I saw a discussion that mentioned about the beardies and parasites.

So you use bioactive for your other reptiles, but not your beardie? Interesting. Are they more prone to parasites than other lizards?

 

[magpie]

sorry i keep kinda spamming this thread, but heres a good link that talks about bio stuff aswell http://bdogroup.org/gencare/bioact/bioact.pdf

Too late to edit - was looking on that site in general and there's a lot of info there, so thanks for leading me to the BDO site.

 

[baldegale14]

I am a member of a bioactive group on FB. When I was setting up my crested gecko bio and WTF bio, I saw a discussion that mentioned about the beardies and parasites.

the only thing i can think of is that its a good idea to get a fecal before starting one to make sure everything’s okay before getting it going, and some people say to get it all started for a week or so before putting your beardie so the exo system and clean up crew get established


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[magpie]

Thanks. Yeah, I think this is something for the future if it does happen. I feel like i need to let the guy get settled in with me and the new home and see if he's baseline healthy before I consider a major change like that. I feel like I should get started with the husbandry first and then as I get used to that go from there!

 

[baldegale14]

Thanks. Yeah, I think this is something for the future if it does happen. I feel like i need to let the guy get settled in with me and the new home and see if he's baseline healthy before I consider a major change like that. I feel like I should get started with the husbandry first and then as I get used to that go from there!

thats what i did! i had my dragon for 6-8 months before i started that


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