Bearded dragon baby’s crashing?

[BeardieT]

hey y’all I had a quick but important question. Me and my girlfriend were out of town for a week and had her mom come to our house to watch our reptiles. After we got back it seemed like three of our 12 week old dragons are crashing pretty hard and it’s super upsetting because two are bright red hypo trans G stripe and were for future breeding. Does anyone know what may be the cause of this? They’re on paper towels at the moment and have UVA and UVB so I’m not sure. The day we got back we got crickets and they seemed to go after them pretty well and I gave them all a soak and they seemed to do well in the bath but today they haven’t moved much, have their eyes closed all the time and look a little sunken in while also being pretty skinny. One female even with her eyes open looks pretty sunken in. We gave them dry juvenile food for the week, but they didn’t touch it so could it possibly be from going about a week without crickets? Either way they ate and drank when we got back so I’m really not sure what the problem could be. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you

 

[BeardieT]

First off you should not house dragons together+- they are territorial and eventually ones health is going to suffer drastically then the other as one will become very dominant over the UVB and basking area -- second please read the newbies guide on the general discussion board for the correct husbandry-- if you have coils for UVB your dragons are basically getting no UVB- there is a ton of info on that thread
Thank you kaylyn

Bearded dragons are actually decently communal and can be housed together if done correctly and given enough space. We have 3 adults (1 male and 2 females) living together and have been for 2 years perfectly fine. They’ve done it since they were little.
Also the husbandry is well done, so I’m not sure that is an issue. These are 8-12 week old dragons that are getting sick. We have THOSE with T10 coil UVB’s in wide bowl lamps in the middle (heat on far end) so they’re getting plenty of UVB + calcium powder. One 12 week old is in a ten gallon by himself and two 9 week olds (brother/sister) are in another ten gallon with a constant food/water source.

 

[BeardieT]

Compact or coil bulbs do not emit the proper amount of UVB light for a bearded dragon, and should not be used. Other brands, such as the Zilla Desert Series and ReptiGlo have been known to cause eye problems and other health issues with bearded dragons, and should be avoided. The reason that some UVB lights (Zilla, ReptiGlo, coils/compacts, ect.) are considered dangerous is because the wavelength of UVB that they emit is shorter and more intense than the wavelength of the "safe" lights (ReptiSun) More times that I can count I have had people come to another forum w/ issues w/ the UVB all using the coil bulb and their dragons sick and dying --- just a heads up later on down the road w/ the little ones about the time they are turning a year old and really sick -- and as far as housing together the same thing - but yes I have heard of them being housed together as well as long as the tank is big enough but more times out of ten people dont have them in a tank big enough and again the one dragon is failing health and stressed out because it is female and the male wants to constantly breed
kaylyn

I have heard of a few of those problems. However only one of them is a “coil” bulb which we are getting new lights for that one. The other is the double looped ReptiSun which isn’t a coil shape. Also the male and female that we have housed together haven’t shown any signs of aggression/mating because they’re so young. We are going to have to remove the adult male from the adult two females because on occasion he does try to mate with one female every so often, but for the most part they don’t fight and rotate soaking under the heat lamp.

 

[BeardieT]

A

Compact or coil bulbs do not emit the proper amount of UVB light for a bearded dragon, and should not be used. Other brands, such as the Zilla Desert Series and ReptiGlo have been known to cause eye problems and other health issues with bearded dragons, and should be avoided. The reason that some UVB lights (Zilla, ReptiGlo, coils/compacts, ect.) are considered dangerous is because the wavelength of UVB that they emit is shorter and more intense than the wavelength of the "safe" lights (ReptiSun) More times that I can count I have had people come to another forum w/ issues w/ the UVB all using the coil bulb and their dragons sick and dying --- just a heads up later on down the road w/ the little ones about the time they are turning a year old and really sick -- and as far as housing together the same thing - but yes I have heard of them being housed together as well as long as the tank is big enough but more times out of ten people dont have them in a tank big enough and again the one dragon is failing health and stressed out because it is female and the male wants to constantly breed
kaylyn

also just did a bit of research last night/this morning and found that your information is correct, however that was for 2006-2009 bulbs mainly from Zilla and the ReptiGlo. It seems that nowadays most reputable brands like Zoo Med’s coils are fine for smaller tanks.

 

[BeardieT]

I have just been told by many that coils are not good -- I know Reptisun is a good brand but they are talking about the coil- I personally have not had a coil but have heard so many stories coming from people who have them and their dragons are not doing well at all - in fact by the time they figure it out the dragon is about to die- lack of UVB for a year is deadly--- I have used the Zilla Desert bulb and my dragon died - she was old and I do blame myself for not doing research on that and after the fact I found the website / forum where I have learned so much-------------- my dragon now I got from around 3 months old and have used the Arcadia 14% bulb and he is very healthy--- no crickets but dubias so I have never had a problem w/ parasites or pin worms --- had him in to the vet in March and had blood work done fecal and Xrays and he is all very good ---
kaylyn

The Zoo Med ones aren’t coil bulbs is what I’m wondering. They’re the tubular ones but compact. They have two tubes in them

 

[BeardieT]

That is considered coil-- tubes are long and come in the T 8 or T 5 bulb and go into a hooded fixture
Kaylyn

I know those are tubes, but the Zoo Med look like those except bent. They aren’t coiled. Either way I have read that those do well nowadays. I can’t imagine putting a 20” long UVB tube over a little ten gallon

 

[BeardieT]

A bearded dragon is not going to be in a 10 gallon tank long - in fact they should start out in a 40 at the least- so it's worth the investment and the fixture can be straddled- we have helped many people w/ this delimma and petstore- employees should advise these people to buy a bigger tank - I can see babies going into something that small but for only as emergency
Kaylyn

One 10 week old dragon doesn’t need to be in a 40 gallon tank. I can see if you have a couple of dragons and just want to permanently set them up. But having three 3 month old dragons, a 10 gallon is fine for them at the moment. We also have a clutch of hatchlings in a big 45 gallon which I could see.

 

[BeardieT]

This is what we considered coil - I know they are a tube but this is what I was talking about--- they are not any good from what I have read and told by people who have had bearded dragons for 20 years - its considered a Compact Fluorescent bulb and does not emit the proper rays -----
kaylyn

I’ve researched and been told the opposite by similar people. I’ve heard no name brand or lesser named coiled coil bulbs are no good. But in 2019 bulbs such as that are considered pretty well for smaller enclosures

 

[BeardieT]

That could be for a smaller tank but I am just going by past peoples experiences w/ this bulb and that bulb ends up on a larger tank w/ the dragon getting sick and developing MBD as these bulbs do not prevent that / or dying----

Here is a 5 month old dragon posted last week on another forum that had the Reptisun 10.0 coil since she brought it home -- the dragon died --- it was healthy when she got it and as time went on she couldnt figure out why its health was declining ---- we tried to help but it was too late --- I cried when she posted saying it had died-- we see too many stories on this forum from people like this one -- some we can save and get help as they come before its too late others like this one was too late
kaylyn

I’ll have to do more research, but everything I’ve seen says the new ones are okay to use for smaller tanks. Also that dragon may have had other factors such as that heated fake rock which can be extremely dangerous. We also give the beardies that don’t have the tube lights calcium + D3 so they should be getting a good amount of that as well.

 

[BeardieT]

Here is some more reading on the UVB's
Lighting

Bearded Dragons require full spectrum lighting for 12-14 hours a day. Reptisun 10.0 or Arcadia 12% tubes are known to provide some of the best full UVB for your dragons. The coils or compacts of the same brand aren't recommended, as they have shown to cause eye problems and reduction of appetite. The Reptiglo brand is also not recommended, tube, coil or compact, as it has been associated with causing eye problems, lethargy and not eating. These fluorescent bulbs should stretch the length of your Beardies enclosure and your B.D. should be able to come within 6-8 inches of the light. The UVB should be mounted inside the tank to allow your dragon 100% of the UVB. On top of the tank can filter out up to 50% of the UVB rays your dragon needs. Mercury vapour bulbs are also a good heat & UVB source, but to allow your dragon full use of the UVB it is best to not use the mesh tank tops. Mounting them on a lampstand with a dome without using a top will allow full use of the UVB. Having the correct type of UVB light is also important to help their bones develop strong and healthy. Depending on the strength of the tube either the T 8 or T 5 would depend on the distance in the tank ---
kaylyn

Not sure how credible this is or the source. Most UVB tube bulbs say keep 12+ inches away as not to get burned. Also never heard of the mesh thing. Not sure how anyone would ever keep beardies if every single one had to have a custom tank with inside lighting because you can’t leave any lizard in a topless tank. We were actually cleaning our Blue Tongue’s enclosure today and while I was cleaning the lid he crawled out of his 45 gallon tank. There’s nothing for him to climb either, so a dragon with no lid will surely escape. We have our adult dragons in a nice ventilated wood enclosure with an indoor 30” UVB and an expensive basking bulb on a dimmer, both installed in the tank. Of course it was almost a $400 tank.

 

[BeardieT]

That could be for a smaller tank but I am just going by past peoples experiences w/ this bulb and that bulb ends up on a larger tank w/ the dragon getting sick and developing MBD as these bulbs do not prevent that / or dying----

Here is a 5 month old dragon posted last week on another forum that had the Reptisun 10.0 coil since she brought it home -- the dragon died --- it was healthy when she got it and as time went on she couldnt figure out why its health was declining ---- we tried to help but it was too late --- I cried when she posted saying it had died-- we see too many stories on this forum from people like this one -- some we can save and get help as they come before its too late others like this one was too late
kaylyn

Also, keep in mind that I’ve only owned these three baby dragons for about 3 weeks and we’re fine when I left for vacation and all of a sudden rapidly deteriorated while I was gone, so it wasn’t like an entire year of exposure to UVC or bad UVB or something. Three of the dragons that are sick are all from the same breeder in California (I’m in Kentucky), but they arrive happy and healthy so it has to be something wrong on our end.

 

[BeardieT]

UVB's do not get hot-- Hiccup was approx 6-8 inches from his Reptisun 10.0 T 8 bulb for the first 7-8 months of his life- he never got burned-- what brand of UVB in tank are you using?
kaylyn

UVB’s don’t get hot, but the radiation being that close can give them sunburns. You don’t get sunburns from the heat, you get them from too many UVB rays. All of ours (tube and compact) are ReptiSun T5 10.0’s